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-   -   Is it better to put poly in the crosses for a hybrid? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=450703)

Ramjet 01-12-2013 01:52 PM

Is it better to put poly in the crosses for a hybrid?
 
Isnt the theory that doing this will allow the gut to slide across the poly cross and snap back. If you put poly in the main wouldnt it actually negate the spin becuase it wouldnt slide as easily across the gut crosses?

scotus 01-12-2013 02:18 PM

Most gut-poly hybrid users put gut in the mains in order to enhance the feel, rather than spin.

Having said this, I have gone both ways, and I have not found a poly-gut setup that had a clear advantage over the gut-poly setup in the spin department.

ChicagoJack 01-13-2013 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramjet (Post 7115234)
Isnt the theory that doing this will allow the gut to slide across the poly cross and snap back. If you put poly in the main wouldnt it actually negate the spin becuase it wouldnt slide as easily across the gut crosses?

Correct.

Gut mains, and Poly crosses have the among the lowest COF (coefficient of friction) of all the string beds that have been measured for such. This can be confirmed with a visit to the friction tool provided here : http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/lear...OFreporter.php

This specific hybrid combination is even more slippery than full beds of the slickest co-polys. That's still a bit of a mystery, we don't know for sure why that happens. What we do know for sure is that for whatever reason, hybrids (even of the same material), are more slippery than full sets. A clever squirrel would then guess that the recipe for a the slickest string bed would be to select the two smoothest co-polys from different brands and lace 'em up together. Doesn't work that way. Gut M's, and Poly X's are still more slippery by comparison. The most plausible theory is that there are natural oils present in the gut which are released onto the poly crosses as they swing over them, and that these oils act as a lubricating agent.

However, when you reverse the situation, and go with Poly mains, and gut crosses, that set up has amongst highest measured COF.

Of the two types of friction, (ball to string friction, and string to string friction), it has been observed, confirmed, and re-confirmed again, that low string to string friction plays a much more important role to spin production than hi string to ball friction.

- Jack

The Big Kahuna 01-14-2013 04:27 PM

Definitely use Poly for the cross string.

I would highly recommend that anyone interested in hybrid string jobs and/or mixing co-poly with gut mains read the article titled "Strings and Spin: Applying What We Know About Copoly" by Joshua Speckman

I have just posted it on another TW discussion thread at: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...394623&page=26

It is one of the best reads on the subject I have seen.

WileyCoyote 01-15-2013 06:09 AM

Bearing Material
 
A bit off course, but a thought about Jack's observation why the gut/poly hybrid offers the least coefficient of friction:

Some would call this sliding/slipping situation a plain bearing. Plain bearings work best when one material is hard (poly?) and one is soft (gut?). When both are hard or both are soft, seizing or other bad things are likely to occur.

Wikipedia's article on "Plain Bearing" sez: "Often the bearing is made up of at least two constituents, where one is soft and the other is hard. The hard constituent supports the load while the soft constituent supports the hard constituent."

Perhaps one of the earliest successful plain bearings using soft/hard were early wheels with metal axles with wood hubs. Farm equipment and lots of other early machinery used this combo well into the 20th century.

So maybe hard poly and soft gut really do make a good combo for known reasons?

Harry

mikeler 01-15-2013 06:25 AM

It all comes down to personal preference.

JackB1 01-15-2013 07:43 AM

the main are sliding up and down along the crosses, which is why the slippery hard string needs to be the crosses. The mains can be the soft string. That is why it doesn't work well the other way around.

mikeler 01-15-2013 09:10 AM

Too much talk about theory. Try it both ways and then you'll have your answer.

TennisCJC 01-15-2013 01:04 PM

The answer is it depends.

Gut/Poly is best for me but I want extra power and feel from gut and mains determine approximately 75% of how a rackets feels and plays. Poly cross adds spin potential, keeps the strings from moving around, and add directional control.

If I thought a racket had too much power and/or I played mostly baseline bash tennis, I might go poly mains with a soft cross but I am too cheap to use gut as the soft cross because it is too expensive. Gut is too expensive for a cross when the mains determine 75% of how the racket plays. So, I would use poly mains with a syn gut or multi cross.

If you like to volley and play all court tennis and racket is not too powerful or lively, I would use gut mains with poly cross.

g4driver 01-16-2013 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeler (Post 7122473)
Too much talk about theory. Try it both ways and then you'll have your answer.

Exactly


For hitting flat (which is what I prefer in doubles) poly mains and multi crosses work great. Black5Edge mains and X-One Bi Phase or NRG2 works outstanding in a Wilson Pro Open for hitting flat crosscourt. Lots of power & control while very comfortable.

Loopy topspin is too easily poached in doubles IMO, but those guys who rip flat balls make it much tougher for the net guy to poach. Pat Baskower addresses this in her book, "The Art of Doubles".

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1558708235

Not the best for spin, but the control and feel in this setup work outstanding for me.



Mikler gets it.

mikeler 01-16-2013 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g4driver (Post 7126034)
Exactly


For hitting flat (which is what I prefer in doubles) poly mains and multi crosses work great. Black5Edge mains and X-One Bi Phase or NRG2 works outstanding in a Wilson Pro Open for hitting flat crosscourt. Lots of power & control while very comfortable.

Loopy topspin is too easily poached in doubles IMO, but those guys who rip flat balls make it much tougher for the net guy to poach. Pat Baskower addresses this in her book, "The Art of Doubles".

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1558708235

Not the best for spin, but the control and feel in this setup work outstanding for me.



Mikler gets it.


My favorite setup that I've ever used is Black5Edge mains with Thunder Blast crosses. I'd like to try it out again with Discho Microfibre crosses someday.

g4driver 01-16-2013 12:53 PM

Mikeler,

I will give you 40' off my reel. Send me a pm.

Wodz 01-16-2013 02:29 PM

I have tried both configurations and have found that the strings move around far more with the poly-gut config. The gut-poly seems to provide more stability (in my two tests) and had better results with slicing and top spin. I definitely noticed a distinct difference when using the poly-gut config and it really comes down to a players preference. As a default I would generally suggest with sticking what provides the most fundamental purpose; gut-poly

Korso 01-16-2013 03:09 PM

Gut mains and poly cross is so sweet I see no reason to change something that seems so perfect

Ramjet 01-17-2013 07:56 PM

Thanks all for the comments. One follow up question. Outside of gut is this the string set up that will remain playable the longest (gut/poly). I.e if you dont want to string often this is actually the best value also?

JackB1 01-18-2013 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramjet (Post 7130783)
Thanks all for the comments. One follow up question. Outside of gut is this the string set up that will remain playable the longest (gut/poly). I.e if you dont want to string often this is actually the best value also?

if you want to leave strings in there for months, go with full syngut.. But get something known for durability.


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