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jakeytennis 01-14-2013 12:40 PM

Palm down serve help
 
i'm trying to learn a palm down serve.

can someone help explain to me how to do it and how it adds power?

Thank you

LeeD 01-14-2013 12:47 PM

Look at vids of Roddick?
His palm faces down and forewards during his takeback to trophy position, which seems to give him more whip than most traditional trophy positions.
Bend your wrist forward and relaxed during your toss motion. It adds another dimension to allow for faster RHS.

WildVolley 01-14-2013 02:16 PM

I don't know if it adds power, but I agree with LeeD that Roddick is a good model.

Just keep your wrist from flopping back as you do an abbreviated take back. Make sure that out of the trophy position that you have plenty of elbow bend into the racket drop and hit the ball.

Good luck. Get some video to see if you are doing what you want.

LeeD 01-14-2013 02:26 PM

I'd been experimenting with that Roddick "palm down and forward", broken wrist idea just entering the trophy position in the beginning of Dec.
Immediately, I got more power. And less control.
Kept at it for over 100 serves spread over a week, got more power, more racket head speed on my flat serves. Didn't use it for second serves, because I need to walk before I can run.
Gave it up because in application, the serves didn't go IN often enough to justify a change of motion. It did get more ballspeed.
I play tennis about twice a week, at best.
If I played 6 days a week like I used to, I'd consider that service motion.

WildVolley 01-14-2013 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 7120166)
I'd been experimenting with that Roddick "palm down and forward", broken wrist idea just entering the trophy position in the beginning of Dec.
Immediately, I got more power. And less control.
Kept at it for over 100 serves spread over a week, got more power, more racket head speed on my flat serves. Didn't use it for second serves, because I need to walk before I can run.
Gave it up because in application, the serves didn't go IN often enough to justify a change of motion. It did get more ballspeed.
I play tennis about twice a week, at best.
If I played 6 days a week like I used to, I'd consider that service motion.

I too have messed with that idea, though I currently have no idea what my serve looks like (guess it is time to break out the Casio Exilim again).

I too was using the abbreviated "palm-down" offset trophy (to the right of the body) that Roddick uses (but I didn't have the extreme shoulder tilt). I was getting some massive power but didn't have a lot of control either, but that may have just been due to lack of practice and the longer racket-path that the offset trophy produces. I'm sure I was getting above 120mph on the rare ones I really cracked, but I don't have radar or video evidence on a serve that big. My shoulder didn't hold up to my big hitting so I was doing something wrong and straining it.

The technique convinced me that there's nothing particularly odd about an abbreviated take back and that most of the windups prior to the trophy position can be discarded if you can adjust the toss and timing.

LeeD 01-14-2013 02:41 PM

Well, power is great and all that, but....
It's worthless if it injures you, or if it leads to inconsistencies in play.
Like long rackets for me. It can work great for another player, but it both injures and leads to erratic play for me.
Conservative that I am, control is more important than pure power.

jakeytennis 01-14-2013 05:43 PM

thanks guys!

Raul_SJ 01-15-2013 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakeytennis (Post 7119910)
i'm trying to learn a palm down serve.

can someone help explain to me how to do it and how it adds power?

Thank you

Keeping the hitting arm palm down avoids the "waiter's tray" position and gets you to the racket drop position smoothly so that you can then accelerate up into the serve for power.

The palm of the hand stays down on the take back and then comes up like you are going to salute.

Check this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p71mW...tailpage#t=68s

TennisCJC 01-15-2013 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raul_SJ (Post 7121497)
Keeping the hitting arm palm down avoids the "waiter's tray" position and gets you to the racket drop position smoothly so that you can then accelerate up into the serve for power.

The palm of the hand stays down on the take back and then comes up like you are going to salute.

Check this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p71mW...tailpage#t=68s

Yes, I have always thought the "palm down" was to basically assist with keeping a closed racket and avoiding opening up the stringbed in the waiters tray. My view is it should help with spin and maybe a little power. Spin as it should result in you approaching the ball on edge allowing a good brushing action. Power if you open the face to hit flat as you have more distance to pronate from closed to flat at contact but mostly spin.

sundaypunch 01-15-2013 01:04 PM

If you have trouble with palm-down, my guess is that you can't hit a slice serve. First of all learning a slice serve is easier than a proper flat serve. The slice serve will force you to be palm-down at the top in order to brush the right side of the ball (this will make sense once you try it).

Because of this, learning a slice will help transition to a proper flat serve with the palm-down position in the trophy pose. It's one of the reasons that many coaches recommend learning the slice first.

LeeD 01-15-2013 01:07 PM

There's a WHOLE lot more about the palm down idea than just avoiding a waiter's tray position.
Stop talking for a second, and TRY IT!
More whip effect, more RHS speed, less control.

oldschoolrules 01-15-2013 02:08 PM

I personally believe that it helps with both - correct positioning of the wrist/forearm and racquet head speed. Think about it this way - if you were to take the racquet straight up from ready position (no drop or extension of arm) to trophy the only way you should be able to do it smoothly is with the palm facing down. What taking it back with the palm down encourages (imho) is fewer "manipulations" of the forearm/wrist to get to a strong trophy position which, in turn, simplifies and "smooths out" the overall motion, leading to a more efficient and, thus, more powerful, swing.

LeeD 01-15-2013 02:25 PM

and loosens the wrist and elbow...

jakeytennis 01-15-2013 05:42 PM

from what u guys are saying and from that youtube link, the palm down serve allows for that "loop" that results in the most RHS and power

from me just recently experimenting with it, i can agree with LeeD that it has less control.
but that probly just because i just started

curious to figure out why it has less control.

Raul_SJ 01-15-2013 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 7123157)
There's a WHOLE lot more about the palm down idea than just avoiding a waiter's tray position.
Stop talking for a second, and TRY IT!
More whip effect, more RHS speed, less control.

Less control?

Why?

LeeD 01-16-2013 01:16 PM

Really?
The volley is the least complicated swing.
The serve the most.
So add extra wrist movement to the serve..... la la la la


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