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-   -   OZ Open and Frenchmen.. where are the Americans (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=451725)

SoCal10s 01-20-2013 08:45 PM

OZ Open and Frenchmen.. where are the Americans
 
I'm watching the Aussie Open and seeing Frenchies everywhere... what is the French Tennis federation doing so right ? can the USTA copy ? it looks like France and Spain even to some extent Australia are putting up some decent players for the near future..

slice bh compliment 01-21-2013 12:48 AM

True. Russian women are doing well, too.

I like the well-rounded game of the French and Spanish guys. We are starting to teach that again in the US.

But there are so many strikes against us.
not enough clay, too much emphasis on winning in the early age groups, limited type of game, most of our best athletes play something other than tennis here, impatience/short attention span, weak work ethic.

Rina 01-21-2013 07:09 AM

I think it truly is the lack of proper instruction. From all I've observed US coaches are not correcting kids enough at all, and if they are correcting they do it once in a while and talk about it after. That is not how you do it imo. My son has trained in Europe and in any small club the coach will stand in the middle during match play and direct them constantly, demands corrections, power, even gets a bit angry if they seem to be losing attention or hitting poorly. During drills you need to be constantly correcting the technique, "elbow, up, elbow up, if you don't want to hit the net get that elbow up!" I know you shouldn't think all the time while training, but this becomes a reflex after a while with kids, and they no longer think about it, they do it. Here in the States, my son will play an hour without a coach saying anything(at a very good academy), likely not even watching. Why is this? Coddling the children(customer), afraid of confrontation, lazy, different teaching styles? I believe that complete difference in parenting is the reason, parents in Europe are not upset with the coach doing his job and usually will ask the kid, well what did you do wrong and here many parents will take the kid's side.

slice bh compliment 01-21-2013 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rina (Post 7143685)
... here many parents will take the kid's side.

Your points are all true, but this one is the best^
Lame American parenting. Weak kids. Wuss coaches. The strong kids gravitate toward other sports, sadly.

Like everyone else right now, I blame Lance. Oh, and Oprah, too.

SoCal10s 01-21-2013 07:51 AM

s b/h c: IDK about that.. some of those Frenchies didn't look too athletic ,yeah maybe you can say Tsonga and Monfils are ,but not the others..plus Tsonga has always looked out of shape to me,up until this year... but those 2 are like mental midgets ...

Rina : I have to agree with you here on the coaching part... I grew up with R.Lansdrops and that's what he did to us.. that's what made him and his students successful .. he is not en vogue now because America has to be so political correct in everything we all do.. if he verbally abused a child now-a -days he'll get sued..(I think he was already).. but growing up with he B.S. set you straight ,I found out later that he's really a *****cat deep down.. he just has a passion for caring for his students .. but of coarse R.L. has the best eyes to see the finest details of your strokes ,and he's the best ball feeder in the business ..

Bartelby 01-21-2013 08:02 AM

So political correctness destroyed american tennis now - deluded, in the extreme!

Overdrive 01-21-2013 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rina (Post 7143685)
I think it truly is the lack of proper instruction. From all I've observed US coaches are not correcting kids enough at all, and if they are correcting they do it once in a while and talk about it after. That is not how you do it imo. My son has trained in Europe and in any small club the coach will stand in the middle during match play and direct them constantly, demands corrections, power, even gets a bit angry if they seem to be losing attention or hitting poorly. During drills you need to be constantly correcting the technique, "elbow, up, elbow up, if you don't want to hit the net get that elbow up!" I know you shouldn't think all the time while training, but this becomes a reflex after a while with kids, and they no longer think about it, they do it. Here in the States, my son will play an hour without a coach saying anything(at a very good academy), likely not even watching. Why is this? Coddling the children(customer), afraid of confrontation, lazy, different teaching styles? I believe that complete difference in parenting is the reason, parents in Europe are not upset with the coach doing his job and usually will ask the kid, well what did you do wrong and here many parents will take the kid's side.

This is exactly true. Here, I'm honestly getting poor coaching and little to no attention when playing me against better players. :mad:

When I train to become a coach, I won't let this happen to my future pupils.:grin:

coaching32yrs 01-21-2013 09:43 AM

I can't speak for Europe but junior tennis is America is not about player development, it is about money. The 2 are in direct conflict. To develop into a pro a junior needs a dedicated coach who spends a lot of time with him/her. It is not "income attractive" to the coach. What I also see is that in private lessons the coaches are good- fully engaged. However, most of the playing comes in "clinics" or "tournament training". In these the coaches are not fully engaged and do not, for the most past, critique and correct.

sureshs 01-21-2013 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rina (Post 7143685)
I think it truly is the lack of proper instruction. From all I've observed US coaches are not correcting kids enough at all, and if they are correcting they do it once in a while and talk about it after. That is not how you do it imo. My son has trained in Europe and in any small club the coach will stand in the middle during match play and direct them constantly, demands corrections, power, even gets a bit angry if they seem to be losing attention or hitting poorly. During drills you need to be constantly correcting the technique, "elbow, up, elbow up, if you don't want to hit the net get that elbow up!" I know you shouldn't think all the time while training, but this becomes a reflex after a while with kids, and they no longer think about it, they do it. Here in the States, my son will play an hour without a coach saying anything(at a very good academy), likely not even watching. Why is this? Coddling the children(customer), afraid of confrontation, lazy, different teaching styles? I believe that complete difference in parenting is the reason, parents in Europe are not upset with the coach doing his job and usually will ask the kid, well what did you do wrong and here many parents will take the kid's side.

With all that great coaching, there are tons of Europeans who are desperate to get into a US college to play tennis and get an education. Obviously, the European system is good for producing a few great pros (and that may be a cyclic thing too) but the rest of them don't seem to be able to balance education and sports.

Maybe the European kids can bear all the criticism because the serious ones like Fed and Nadal drop out of school at 16 years. If you had to go home and do homework and compete academically, you would also not take kindly to a harsh coach. If you have nothing else to do and plan to send your video to a US college, sure you will tolerate it.

sureshs 01-21-2013 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartelby (Post 7143818)
So political correctness destroyed american tennis now - deluded, in the extreme!

When the Fab 4 were on the top, American parenting must have been great. Then it suddenly dropped. American juniors did not know to keep their elbow up or whatever. It happened suddenly.

Rina 01-21-2013 10:09 AM

That was just my opinion, clearly there will be superb players no matter the background or the country. There are great coaches in the US as well, it is just hard to find them sometimes. But, I do see a huge shift in parenting in US in the last two decades. The "I come first" attitude has had a positive and a negative contribution in all aspects of life and work.

Rina 01-21-2013 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7144096)
With all that great coaching, there are tons of Europeans who are desperate to get into a US college to play tennis and get an education. Obviously, the European system is good for producing a few great pros (and that may be a cyclic thing too) but the rest of them don't seem to be able to balance education and sports.

Maybe the European kids can bear all the criticism because the serious ones like Fed and Nadal drop out of school at 16 years. If you had to go home and do homework and compete academically, you would also not take kindly to a harsh coach. If you have nothing else to do and plan to send your video to a US college, sure you will tolerate it.

I thought this thread was about making the pros? As for US tennis, I don't think it is bad at all, there are 7 players in the top 100, France has 10. Doesn't the need to justify lack of "more" top players comes from our own perception?

sureshs 01-21-2013 10:25 AM

It is a global sport now and much more affordable. Martina was discussing this exact same topic last night. She attributed it to globalization and affordability. It is naive to think that a country with a population of China cannot top the US in sports once affordability and exposure increase even further. She mentioned Africa as a continent which has much latent potential (apart from S. Africa). Once they get into the swing of things, it will be even more global. The days when only one country was good at a particular thing are gone. The only exception will be the US military, which is so far ahead of everyone else that no one is ever going to catch up.

Misterbill 01-21-2013 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7144262)
The only exception will be the US military, which is so far ahead of everyone else that no one is ever going to catch up.

Well, this is a little off-topic, but I can always say that someone else started it.

The quoted sentiment reminds me of what the British....and the Romans before them......also thought. I think military might is correlated more to economic strength than any other single factor

Tennishacker 01-21-2013 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slice bh compliment (Post 7143764)
Your points are all true, but this one is the best^
Lame American parenting. Weak kids. Wuss coaches. The strong kids gravitate toward other sports, sadly.

Like everyone else right now, I blame Lance. Oh, and Oprah, too.

Yes, American parents looking/expecting instant gratification.

Tennishacker 01-21-2013 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCal10s (Post 7142385)
I'm watching the Aussie Open and seeing Frenchies everywhere... what is the French Tennis federation doing so right ? can the USTA copy ? it looks like France and Spain even to some extent Australia are putting up some decent players for the near future..

France has more serious tennis players than America. They take the game more seriously.
France's centralized national sports school/program identifies promising juniors early.

Spain, slowing of all courts, (hard, grass) suites their "grinding" style of play.

American style is and should always be the "attacking" game, slow courts work against us.

American coaches have no passion for the game anymore, they are more concerned about the, "ALMIGHTY DOLLAR".

sureshs 01-21-2013 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tennishacker (Post 7144439)
American coaches have no passion for the game anymore, they are more concerned about the, "ALMIGHTY DOLLAR".

Who would be a group of people who are not concerned about the almighty dollar?

SoCal10s 01-21-2013 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7144613)
Who would be a group of people who are not concerned about the almighty dollar?

crazy freeking artist who works towards their passion and those who already have .. instead of those who feel that it's never enough ...

Tennishacker 01-21-2013 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7144613)
Who would be a group of people who are not concerned about the almighty dollar?

Pope, BB, teachers and those trying to improve the life of the less fortunate.

maggmaster 01-21-2013 12:30 PM

Plus the French have an open tournament circuit which brings together their junior and senior top level players. The tennis federation provides prize money and they are condensed within a relatively small geographic area. US focuses on junior only competition that is age divided, I am not sure that is the best way.


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