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-   -   Players still make clean contact (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=451831)

FrisbeeFool 01-21-2013 12:24 PM

Players still make clean contact
 
I guess I'll create a new topic for this since it seems to be a big misconception people have about tennis history.

Go back and watch videos of tennis in the 80's and 90's. The Forehand grips have become more extreme. With the semiwestern grip, players rotate more into, through and out of the modern forehand. They get the flat pace and the topspin to bring the ball up and down. Players today have higher takebacks with the racket head above their hitting hand. Many players were already hitting like this in the 80's and before.

If you're following internet advice to pull off your stroke, you are headed for distaster. Players today have long follow-throughs. Always have. Always will. They make solid contact and have repeatable clean strokes that rarely miss. If you're hitting with too much of a brushy glancing blow because that's what you perceive on tv, you aren't focusing on what is really happening in the stroke. Get a good coach who will teach the fundamentals in a clear way without the mystical ambiguous language.

luvforty 01-21-2013 12:28 PM

hold the horses -

who is saying glancing blow with a brush?

the difference is there, but you are the one going to the other extreme opposite to 'clean contact'.

sureshs 01-21-2013 12:42 PM

Clean contact is very important otherwise what you end up with is a club player who is neither here or there - cannot put a ball reliably in a certain area on demand with a simple stroke, nor can produce the massive top spin with power that the juniors do. Some flashy Fed-like actions, then comes back and posts here that he lost to an old pusher who got the balls back with slice.

the hack 01-21-2013 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7144917)
Clean contact is very important otherwise what you end up with is a club player who is neither here or there - cannot put a ball reliably in a certain area on demand with a simple stroke, nor can produce the massive top spin with power that the juniors do. Some flashy Fed-like actions, then comes back and posts here that he lost to an old pusher who got the balls back with slice.

I think the pro's racquet speed is so fast that most people don't understand the path the raquet is really taking. thank goodness for slow motion on you-tube.

sureshs 01-21-2013 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the hack (Post 7145798)
I think the pro's racquet speed is so fast that most people don't understand the path the raquet is really taking. thank goodness for slow motion on you-tube.

They miss the clean square contact and the extension before and after contact before the racket comes over. This was nicely pointed out by Peter Burwash, who used to be a pro player in his time.

Nikae 03-02-2013 11:20 AM

One of best posts on this forum. Let me clear whats OP trying to say, with a single link:

http://www.hi-techtennis.com/forehand/topspin.php

:)

Relinquis 03-02-2013 02:05 PM

isn't he OP the guy who said one shouldn't give advice without being able to demonstrate it (in relation to the single handed backhand thread)?

I believe "put up or shut up"... was how you had phrased it.


But to address the topic of this thread. yes, you should hit through the ball, with lost of volume through contact and have a full follow through.

WildVolley 03-02-2013 06:29 PM

Speak for yourself. Some of my heaviest spin shots are all frame!:twisted:

thecode 03-04-2013 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvforty (Post 7144868)
hold the horses -

who is saying glancing blow with a brush?

good question. who is saying that or pull off the ball? I've never heard that advice anywhere. I have heard many say not to do those things.

rufus_smith 03-05-2013 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikae (Post 7246504)
One of best posts on this forum. Let me clear whats OP trying to say, with a single link:

http://www.hi-techtennis.com/forehand/topspin.php

:)

but op says :"If you're following internet advice to pull off your stroke, you are headed for distaster"

Povl Carstensen 03-05-2013 10:14 AM

I think most anyone agree in hitting through. What other factors go into the shot has been quite intensively debated though.
I would mention that more brushing activity can be seen for achieving short, sharp angles, trying to make the ball dip at a volleyers feet, and perhaps for getting low balls closer to the net up and down again on the other side.

TennisCJC 03-06-2013 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikae (Post 7246504)
One of best posts on this forum. Let me clear whats OP trying to say, with a single link:

http://www.hi-techtennis.com/forehand/topspin.php

:)

This ^^^ is good internet advice. My thought is wrist is relaxed and passive and the site above seems to show that - at least that is what I see. And, yes there is extension up and thru the impact zone.

But, I do disagree with the site that it is straight up the back off the ball. You are rotating your arm into contact with your core rotation hips and shoulders. The pattern of you hand and racket head is an eclipse if viewed from above. There is an element of across in the swing as the eclipse will begin to pull to the L for a right handed player around the impact zone. The has been discussed, debated, and argued too often here, but I think the correct thought is the racket head moves up, thru, and across with a passive wrist - no fancy brushing, no yanking back with hand, just a smooth stroke.

JCo872 04-16-2013 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TennisCJC (Post 7255717)
This ^^^ is good internet advice. My thought is wrist is relaxed and passive and the site above seems to show that - at least that is what I see. And, yes there is extension up and thru the impact zone.

But, I do disagree with the site that it is straight up the back off the ball. You are rotating your arm into contact with your core rotation hips and shoulders. The pattern of you hand and racket head is an eclipse if viewed from above. There is an element of across in the swing as the eclipse will begin to pull to the L for a right handed player around the impact zone. The has been discussed, debated, and argued too often here, but I think the correct thought is the racket head moves up, thru, and across with a passive wrist - no fancy brushing, no yanking back with hand, just a smooth stroke.

If you look at the animations on the link the racket head does go straight up and forward for those two or three frames. You can see how the tip of the racket is not coming across at all but going straight up and forward.

Of course after those frames the arm does come across in the "windshield wiper" finish. But I think these few frames of animation are crucial because it shows how "clean contact" results from going through and straight up in that brief moment in time before coming across. Of course this is all completely invisible to the human eye when watching pros play. You really have to see the animations to believe it.

NLBwell 04-16-2013 03:02 PM

You can't see if the racket is going across the ball at impact, but you can see the spin and bounce of the ball - which will tell you how the racket impacted the ball.
Pro players can hit with either direction of sidespin or with none as they choose.

5263 04-16-2013 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLBwell (Post 7347681)
You can't see if the racket is going across the ball at impact, but you can see the spin and bounce of the ball - which will tell you how the racket impacted the ball.
Pro players can hit with either direction of sidespin or with none as they choose.

yep,
this like other examples we have used in the past, shows with the front view,
how the racket is moving across at impact and giving sidespin.
The camera angle only serves to lessen the impact, as it would be even more clear
if the camera were inline with the outgoing ball path.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AaK3aDw3M0

NLBwell 04-18-2013 08:16 AM

I can't see it clearly enough on my computer to pick up the spin of the ball.

mightyrick 04-18-2013 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildVolley (Post 7247325)
Speak for yourself. Some of my heaviest spin shots are all frame!:twisted:

I agree with this.

I don't like to hit off-center just because it can be jarring to the arm/elbow/shoulder, but some of my nastiest topspin shots are hit at the lower-portion of the racquet head... hitting both strings and frame.

Most of these kinds of mis-hits occur when I go for too much low-to-high and too much racquet head speed. The result is usually a super-topspin heavy ball or a complete miss. :-)

sureshs 04-18-2013 08:35 AM

^^^ Those can have unpredictable spin too, especially the ones which are all frame. I have almost twisted by back going the wrong way with some of those.

Povl Carstensen 04-18-2013 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLBwell (Post 7351239)
I can't see it clearly enough on my computer to pick up the spin of the ball.

On the second shot I can clearly see the sidespin (top/sidespin that is).

NLBwell 04-18-2013 08:35 PM

Either my display isn't good enough or my eyes aren't good enough.


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