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-   -   Federer hitting the ball better than ever? Or at least 2005/2006 level? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=452057)

BeHappy 01-23-2013 04:06 AM

Federer hitting the ball better than ever? Or at least 2005/2006 level?
 
He's lost a lot of footspeed but everything is just working like clockwork. Forehand, backhand, halfvolley flick passes, effortless returns. Reminds me of Sampras in the 2002 USO final.

A sight for sore eyes after the monotony of Djoker/Murray.

joeri888 01-23-2013 04:09 AM

yesss.. he hit 40% first serves, missed slice returns, missed easy forehands on big points all the time in 2006.

NO.

Fed hardly ever hits a running forehand dtl for instance anymore. Which is a crucial shot to wrongfoot any opponent. Fed plays the percentages, and plays them well, but he's way more predictable and more sloppy. Fed's serve is a bigger weapon today, but he was hitting it poorly today.

His backhand was solid, but the slice is not knifed as much.

Fed 2006 was just god. This guy is amazing, but not God.

BeHappy 01-23-2013 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeri888 (Post 7152863)
yesss.. he hit 40% first serves, missed slice returns, missed easy forehands on big points all the time in 2006.

NO.

Fed hardly ever hits a running forehand dtl for instance anymore. Which is a crucial shot to wrongfoot any opponent. Fed plays the percentages, and plays them well, but he's way more predictable and more sloppy. Fed's serve is a bigger weapon today, but he was hitting it poorly today.

His backhand was solid, but the slice is not knifed as much.

Fed 2006 was just god. This guy is amazing, but not God.

He never did hit topspin running forehands that often, it was always the squash shot. Feder has always been bad on big points, it just never mattered because he was so good. Look at his historic break point conversion rate, very low.

TheFifthSet 01-23-2013 04:11 AM

his forehand, movement, and return have declined among other things. the only important shot that has marginally improved is the second serve (slightly).

i don't think his bh is better now than in 2006. Better than it was from 2008-2010, that I agree with.

TheFifthSet 01-23-2013 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeri888 (Post 7152863)
His backhand was solid, but the slice is not knifed as much.

Yeah I agree. His slice is still godly but it doesn't seem as good today.

Agassifan 01-23-2013 04:12 AM

Lacks power. A Lot.

Dagobah 01-23-2013 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeHappy (Post 7152851)
He's lost a lot of footspeed but everything is just working like clockwork. Forehand, backhand, halfvolley flick passes, effortless returns. Reminds me of Sampras in the 2002 USO final.

A sight for sore eyes after the monotony of Djoker/Murray.

Exactly, thats why I mde this thread.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=451989

I would gladly exchange my speed for those shots, because they're playing on a slow court anyway. Federer is much better on the offence, so in my opinion he's a better player than he used to be.

BeHappy 01-23-2013 04:16 AM

I disagree with you all when you say his forehand was bad today compared to how it used to be. He completely dominated the match with it. What are you all talking about?

joeri888 01-23-2013 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeHappy (Post 7152869)
He never did hit topspin running forehands that often, it was always the squash shot. Feder has always been bad on big points, it just never mattered because he was so good. Look at his historic break point conversion rate, very low.

he barely went up the line anyway with his forehand today. He did not Always hit the squash shot. He used to really use his pace to drill a running forehand either cross court or dtl.

Anyways, Fed and big points:

Fed has a bp conversion of 42% over his career, compared to Nadal's and Djokovic's 45

Fed saves 67% of bp's on his own serve. Compared to Nadal's 66 and Djokovic 65.



I didn't say he used to be better on big points than he is now. He was about equal maybe. However, he was way better at hitting big shots when he was playing well. Today he played well, yet still gave up cheap breaks and stuff. He just missed a lot less and was NEVER EVER overpowered (except for MAYBE once against Safin).

BeHappy 01-23-2013 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeri888 (Post 7152897)
he barely went up the line anyway with his forehand today. He did not Always hit the squash shot. He used to really use his pace to drill a running forehand either cross court or dtl.

Anyways, Fed and big points:

Fed has a bp conversion of 42% over his career, compared to Nadal's and Djokovic's 45

Fed saves 67% of bp's on his own serve. Compared to Nadal's 66 and Djokovic 65.



I didn't say he used to be better on big points than he is now. He was about equal maybe. However, he was way better at hitting big shots when he was playing well. Today he played well, yet still gave up cheap breaks and stuff. He just missed a lot less and was NEVER EVER overpowered (except for MAYBE once against Safin).

Well Roddick overpowered him for a set or 2 in wimbledon 2004.

I'm not saying Federer is as good as he was because he has lost so much footspeed, just that his strokes are working absolutely beautifully like they used to. I am 100% confident Murray and Djoker won't be able to break his backhand down for example.

I always noticed Federer using the squash shot most of the time, I really noticed it because I love big running forehands a la Sampras and Becker (and now Nadal), to me it seemed like it was the usual percentage of squash shots on the run against Tsonga but maybe you're right.

Nathaniel_Near 01-23-2013 04:26 AM

No. Good thread though. Fantastic effort and well played.

Come ooon...

augustobt 01-23-2013 04:37 AM

When I see anyone comparing actual Federer (or post 2007 Federer) with his incarnation of 2006 I doubt that the person who compares has actually saw him playing back in '06 and is commenting based on google searches/wikipedia.

TennisLovaLova 01-23-2013 04:43 AM

Obviously OP didnt watch the match at all
Everything was a disaster in the 4th first sets.
Serve, fh, bh, volley, net approach, everything, you name it.

Not only did Federer use to hit better in his prime, but he did with a sick consistency. That's why peak fed is (was sadly) the GOAT...

BeHappy 01-23-2013 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by augustobt (Post 7152952)
When I see anyone comparing actual Federer (or post 2007 Federer) with his incarnation of 2006 I doubt that the person who compares has actually saw him playing back in '06 and is commenting based on google searches/wikipedia.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=162980&

There I am talking about Federer in 2007 when I joined this message board.

ark_28 01-23-2013 04:54 AM

His serve could be clicking slightly better! It's a very underrated shot! He also is a great returner he did a great job today in the 5th v Tsonga!

Last year in the Davis Cup though he was powerless against the missiles being served by John Isner as the American romped to a 4 set win! This kind of tennis has been missed at the AO this year! App out attack one two striking!

Bad_Knee 01-23-2013 04:54 AM

All this is ever time, is *******s trying to imply Federer is playing peak like 2005, so that when he loses it's like "ZOMG no way peak Fed lost to Tsonga"...

kOaMaster 01-23-2013 08:19 AM

Federer will never ever again play like he did in his prime, this is obviously clear to everyone I hope.

What I think the main difference is, that he learned to play with a lot more brain & effectivness than with power shots. This sounds ironic since Federer isn't a ball basher, but I remember many matches in his prime where I thought he's just going for the winner because he can and probably still make the point/winning the match, not because it's the most effective shot.
Right now I think the variety and the intelligent way to construct a point, outplay an opponent and using his whole arsenal of shots he can do makes the difference.

A guy like Tsonga would've never troubled Federer in a GS-QF in his prime, just because he could not have outpowered Federer in the rallies the way he did today. The losses against Soderling, Berdych, Tsonga and Del Potro are the best examples for that kind of transition.

Guys like Gonzales never stood a chance against Federer 5-10 years ago, whether their game was on or not.

NadalAgassi 01-23-2013 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad_Knee (Post 7152995)
All this is ever time, is *******s trying to imply Federer is playing peak like 2005, so that when he loses it's like "ZOMG no way peak Fed lost to Tsonga"...

Yes since BeHappy is a known *******. :roll:

dysonlu 01-23-2013 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeHappy (Post 7152869)
He never did hit topspin running forehands that often, it was always the squash shot. Feder has always been bad on big points, it just never mattered because he was so good. Look at his historic break point conversion rate, very low.

Euh, that's completely wrong. He seldom hits the squash shot and when he does, people (particularly, commentators) are usually in awe. Maybe just lately he's been hitting it more often because he's lost a step.

corners 01-23-2013 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeHappy (Post 7152909)
Well Roddick overpowered him for a set or 2 in wimbledon 2004.

I'm not saying Federer is as good as he was because he has lost so much footspeed, just that his strokes are working absolutely beautifully like they used to. I am 100% confident Murray and Djoker won't be able to break his backhand down for example.

That is a good point. I don't think he hits as many backhand winners as he used to, so in that aspect his backhand has not improved, but he committed fewer errors off that wing than Tsonga yesterday, and Tsonga was really hitting his two-hander and trying to pick on Fed's one-hander.

On Eurosport Wilander talked quite a bit about Fed's backhand. First, he was saying he didn't understand why he was coming over it constantly instead of changing pace with the slice. Then he said he generally came over it more than before, and didn't think this was a good thing, as his slice is the best in the game. Later he mused that perhaps the reason why he's hitting fewer slices nowadays is that the forehands of today's top 10 have gotten better than what he faced back in the Roddick/Hewitt days and that these guys today can put him on the defensive by ripping forehands off the slice, and that Fed knows he can't win playing defense against the elite players.

All good points, I thought, but I also wonder if Fed commits to coming over the backhand because he feels that he has to groove the stroke in order to stay in backhand to backhand rallies. As anyone with a OHBH knows, the slice is great, but you essentially have two backhands and so the topspin shot gets less reps and less practice than the forehand. Maybe stubbornly committing to the topspin backhand is the only way he can keep the shot tuned well enough in a match for it to stand up to pounding. He used to mess with opponents by switching from slice to topspin backhands during a rally, throwing off his opponents' rhythm. Nowadays, maybe switching back and forth throws off his own rhythm and timing. Just guessing. But anyway, yeah, I don't fear for his backhand like I used to when an opponent persists in attacking it, and he does seem to hold his own and even get the better of some two-handers in crosscourt rallies.


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