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-   -   1 pc vs 2 pc babs on prince neos (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=452245)

tennisnut123 01-24-2013 06:11 AM

1 pc vs 2 pc babs on prince neos
 
As of right now i use two different stringers pending on which venue im at. At one venue Im using a babolat 5star an absolutely love it. At the other, im using a prince neos machine with slider clamps, and i really like it as well due to simplicity (not that the 5star is insanely advanced and is hard to use or anything). I usually Do a 1 piece job on all babs that require it with the flying clamp and around the world pattern when im stringing with the 5star and always do a 2 piece job when using the neos. I decided to snag another flying clamp to start doing the 1pc while using the neos as well.

Now i know that different people have different feelings about strings and some feel 2pc is better than 1pc and the opposite applies as well. My main question is for the people who are for stringing the ATW pattern using the flying clamp. Do you feel as though its good to use the flying clamp with the NEOS stringer with slider clamps, or just keep doing the 2pc string jobs?

I strung an aero pro lite this morning with nxt tour 18 with the flying clamp ATW pattern on the neos instead of doing the normal 2 piece string jobs that i do for this person since they always give me the "ehh same kinda string or similar string, whatever tension...I cant tell the difference" kind of response when asked how they would like the racket to be strung, and honestly...this person wont be able to tell the difference if there is one.

But just give me your thoughts on this. Would like to hear what others like to do and think is better for any reasons. This possibly should be in the stringing equip/techniques thread maybe?

diredesire 01-24-2013 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennisnut123 (Post 7157480)
As of right now i use two different stringers pending on which venue im at. At one venue Im using a babolat 5star an absolutely love it. At the other, im using a prince neos machine with slider clamps, and i really like it as well due to simplicity (not that the 5star is insanely advanced and is hard to use or anything). I usually Do a 1 piece job on all babs that require it with the flying clamp and around the world pattern when im stringing with the 5star and always do a 2 piece job when using the neos. I decided to snag another flying clamp to start doing the 1pc while using the neos as well.

Now i know that different people have different feelings about strings and some feel 2pc is better than 1pc and the opposite applies as well. My main question is for the people who are for stringing the ATW pattern using the flying clamp. Do you feel as though its good to use the flying clamp with the NEOS stringer with slider clamps, or just keep doing the 2pc string jobs?

I strung an aero pro lite this morning with nxt tour 18 with the flying clamp ATW pattern on the neos instead of doing the normal 2 piece string jobs that i do for this person since they always give me the "ehh same kinda string or similar string, whatever tension...I cant tell the difference" kind of response when asked how they would like the racket to be strung, and honestly...this person wont be able to tell the difference if there is one.

But just give me your thoughts on this. Would like to hear what others like to do and think is better for any reasons. This possibly should be in the stringing equip/techniques thread maybe?

Moving to the techniques forum....

I'd recommend grabbing a starting clamp rather than a flying. It sounds like it'd solve many of your problems without having to deal with tension loss on a floating/flying clamp. The only exception I'd make is if you nabbed a Stringway style flying clamp. They have better torsional resistance, IMO.

Irvin 01-24-2013 03:50 PM

DD I think it depends on how he is using the flying clamp. Tennisnut123 care to elaborate on your method?

tennisnut123 01-25-2013 08:32 AM

Well i went ahead and did all of the mains, except the last main on the short side, so both mains were clamped with slider clamps, i then wove both the top and bottom crosses. I pulled tension to the top cross then clamping it with the flying clamp. Released tension, then pulled tension the the bottom cross. Then, removing both slider clamps off of the last main on the long side, and last main on the short side. Then putting one slider clamp on the bottom cross and locking it. Then fed through the last main to complete the mains, pulled tension to the last main, and locked it with the slider clamp. I then put the short side that was clamped with the flying clamp into the tension head and pulled tension to it. While tension was pulled i removed the flying clamp and attached it to the last main that was currently clamped with a slider clamp. Then removed that same slider clamp while flying clamp was attached, and adding the slider clamp to the short side main, which is also the first cross string, then tied and synched(spelling?) the knot and removing the slider clamp. After that knot I pulled tension to the long side main, which now serves as the string for the rest of the crosses. Then, removed the flying clamp and replaced the slider clamp on the inner portion of the racket and strung the rest of the crosses.

Im sure i probably lost a little bit of tension, but figured it was worth a try. Will take any pointers and what not that you have. Thanks

This is the "flying" clamp that i was using and i think this is the right name for it, if not, please correct me.

http://www.photostringer.com/images/061110-030d.jpg

tennisnut123 01-25-2013 08:32 AM

Probably a pretty confusing story, but try your best to understand lol

Irvin 01-25-2013 09:51 AM

Right? My brain is clamping er I mean cramping. LOL Isn't doing ATW with a glide bar machine fun? I don't like your method because you will be pulling tension when switching from mains to crosses (and vice versa) with short sections of the frame supporting your pull but many people do that without any problems. If it works for you good.

tennisnut123 01-25-2013 11:29 AM

Yeah, sorry about that Irvin. Just figured I would see what you guys thought since your experience and knowledge most likely dwarfs mine. It wasn't too bad, and I felt as though it was still easy, but the slider bars added some extra steps for sure, and the fact im using a star 5 at another location is spoiling. I guess my last question would be, is it worth it to do this on my clients rackets who are more precise, or is it adding too much stress to the racket and strings during the process of the clamping and unclamping?

diredesire 01-25-2013 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennisnut123 (Post 7163773)
Well i went ahead and did all of the mains, except the last main on the short side, so both mains were clamped with slider clamps, i then wove both the top and bottom crosses. I pulled tension to the top cross then clamping it with the flying clamp. Released tension, then pulled tension the the bottom cross. Then, removing both slider clamps off of the last main on the long side, and last main on the short side. Then putting one slider clamp on the bottom cross and locking it. Then fed through the last main to complete the mains, pulled tension to the last main, and locked it with the slider clamp. I then put the short side that was clamped with the flying clamp into the tension head and pulled tension to it. While tension was pulled i removed the flying clamp and attached it to the last main that was currently clamped with a slider clamp. Then removed that same slider clamp while flying clamp was attached, and adding the slider clamp to the short side main, which is also the first cross string, then tied and synched(spelling?) the knot and removing the slider clamp. After that knot I pulled tension to the long side main, which now serves as the string for the rest of the crosses. Then, removed the flying clamp and replaced the slider clamp on the inner portion of the racket and strung the rest of the crosses.

Im sure i probably lost a little bit of tension, but figured it was worth a try. Will take any pointers and what not that you have. Thanks

This is the "flying" clamp that i was using and i think this is the right name for it, if not, please correct me.

http://www.photostringer.com/images/061110-030d.jpg

Yeah, that is a "Starting" clamp.

I'm going to simplify this so it's easier to read:

Strung all mains except last on SS. Clamps still on mains.

Wove first and last cross. Tension top cross, starting clamp to free up one clamp.

Tension bottom cross, swap glide bar to cross configuration. Clamp bottom cross.

Wove missing main (with long side), tensioned (freeing up the glidebar), and clamped with glide bar. (Does this mean you had to swap clamp configuration again?) ... Are you using half bars???

Tensioned short side (top cross???) to release starter, moved starter to last main (long side?).

Glide bar moved to cross setup to clamp top cross and tie off.

______________________________________

I'm pretty sure I lost your process nearer to the end, as it sounds overly complicated. One thing that I will point out to you is moving a starting clamp to the outside of the frame on a string that is already tensioned (and clamped with a glide bar clamp) and then releasing the glide bar clamp will reduce the tension on the string. The Starting clamp should ONLY be placed on the outside of the frame when the entire string is under tension. This means REPULLING the string (even if there's a machine clamp on it), THEN putting your starter on the outside.

I should point out to you that there are half bar clamps in existence for exactly this type of pattern.

There's no real way to do this without ugliness (with glide bar swapping, without half length bars) OR two starting clamps.

If I had to do this:

1) String all mains, leave off one on the short side. Tension and clamp both the "last" short side main, as well as the long side main. Machine clamp both sides.
2) Weave short side cross (top cross, leaving one hole open). Tension this string, put the starter on the outside of the frame.
3) Weave the bottom cross, tension, swap bars, clamp.
4) Fill in the final main with long side. Swap bars, clamp.
5) Weave second cross, tension, clamp
6)Continue down the frame, tie off (clamp free).
7) Re tension top cross, releasing the starter. Clamp with the glide bar, tie off.

You can "cut" a step by putting two bars on for the crosses, but that's a little silly, unless you don't trust your starter.

IMO I wouldn't do this on a glide bar machine, as it's more hassle than it's worth with glide bars.

Irvin 01-25-2013 01:46 PM

I can make it is simpler, string all mains except for short side outside main and tie off short side outside main. Use long side to run bottom cross and SS outside main. String remaining crosses from the top down. No need for starting clamp or flying clamp.

tennisnut123 01-25-2013 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvin (Post 7164926)
I can make it is simpler, string all mains except for short side outside main and tie off short side outside main. Use long side to run bottom cross and SS outside main. String remaining crosses from the top down. No need for starting clamp or flying clamp.

On the Aero pro the tie off hole is the second to last main on either side though, so you have to weave the top cross to tie off on that same grommet hole, just on the opposite side. This seems to be a crazy hassle lol, ill just stick to doing the two piece method on the neos haha. Thanks again for the feedback though!!

diredesire 01-25-2013 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvin (Post 7164926)
I can make it is simpler, string all mains except for short side outside main and tie off short side outside main. Use long side to run bottom cross and SS outside main. String remaining crosses from the top down. No need for starting clamp or flying clamp.

This is why I made the qualification "to keep as close to the original pattern as possible." I assumed OP had a good reason for wanting to tie off on the cross... although it appears from below the reason isn't what I expected... ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennisnut123 (Post 7164939)
On the Aero pro the tie off hole is the second to last main on either side though, so you have to weave the top cross to tie off on that same grommet hole, just on the opposite side. This seems to be a crazy hassle lol, ill just stick to doing the two piece method on the neos haha. Thanks again for the feedback though!!

Since you're stringing a pretty non standard pattern to begin with, you could either make a hole larger, or just leave a different main open (3rd vs second). This is all theoretical, and really silly though.

Steve Huff 01-25-2013 09:04 PM

ATW was easy with the Neos (I had the Model H) if you have a short clamp bar. I strung a box pattern. With the Babolat, it's even easier. String the 1st 7 mains on each side as you normally would. With the long string, tension and clamp with the clamp on the short bar. Then, string the top cross, tension it, turn the glide bars horizontal to clamp and tie off. The short bar allows you to do this. Then, weave the bottom cross just like the top one (1 and 19, both odd numbers so over and under is the same). Tension and clamp using the clamp on the regular bar that's already horizontal. Then, string the last main, clamp using the short bar clamp again. You're at the top, ready to start with the 2nd cross and work your way down. A true "box" pattern.

Irvin 01-26-2013 03:02 AM

Problem is the NEOS 1000 does not have a short bar, so if you have two clamps at the same time they must be parallel.

tennisnut123 01-26-2013 07:26 AM

Yeah, i just have the slider bars which always have to be parallel. Its easy to do a wilson racket with the atw pattern since there are a few holes large enough to tie off on, but babs are different without the right tools.

Irvin 01-26-2013 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennisnut123 (Post 7167126)
Yeah, i just have the slider bars which always have to be parallel. Its easy to do a wilson racket with the atw pattern since there are a few holes large enough to tie off on, but babs are different without the right tools.

Just as easy to do the Babolat as the wilson. For one thing both allow bottom up stringing. Problem come because you think you must do top down. If you want to string top down string all mains on the short side and tie off use the long side to string your crosses and the outside main on the long side. If you have an even number of crosses string from the top down and the outside main last. If you have an odd number of crosses string from the second cross down up for the outside main and lastly the top cross.

EDIT: That is if you want to do ATW which creates as many if not more problems as bottom up. The worst of which is utter confusion.

diredesire 01-26-2013 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvin (Post 7166684)
Problem is the NEOS 1000 does not have a short bar, so if you have two clamps at the same time they must be parallel.

I've worked on two NEOSes with short bars, maybe it's an add-on purchase? No one seemed to know they existed, though... I found them in a box in storage..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvin (Post 7167301)
Just as easy to do the Babolat as the wilson. For one thing both allow bottom up stringing. Problem come because you think you must do top down. If you want to string top down string all mains on the short side and tie off use the long side to string your crosses and the outside main on the long side. If you have an even number of crosses string from the top down and the outside main last. If you have an odd number of crosses string from the second cross down up for the outside main and lastly the top cross.

EDIT: That is if you want to do ATW which creates as many if not more problems as bottom up. The worst of which is utter confusion.

Yep. This is the reason I avoid ATW, it's generally not necessary, and it's not a standard pattern, so you don't save on warranty issues anyways. I believe I actually read from Irvin (?) that even Head is actually honoring warranties these days strung bottom up.

tennisnut123 01-26-2013 09:23 AM

Thats good to know, have yet to have warranty problems yet, which is a good thing. Another quest, always wondered this. Do the string recommendations that are printed on the racket mean anything? I've always thought that its just a safety precaution for the manufacturers if the racket happens to crack or become damaged during stringing if strung outside of the recommended tensions. But is that true?

Irvin 01-26-2013 02:33 PM

The only thing printed on the racket is the # of mains/crosses I have never seen two/one piece top down or bottom up.


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