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-   -   Please watch and join the convo if you want (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=452517)

TheLambsheadrep 01-25-2013 05:42 PM

Please watch and join the convo if you want
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdSWqlFGHqE
Here are some of my strokes with some straight arm break down at 2:28. Please let me know what you think about the shots, and feel free to get into the thread that some of that break down is there for
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=449165

I would like one thing addressed specifically in this thread, though. I said this in the thread linked above but think it's place is better here:

A post by 1HBH Rocks said (referring to Fed and Nadal) said “The reason they hit with a straight arm is that they perform an arm extension in their take back while they pronate their forearm a bit.” I see truth in this when watching my video, even though it is not always the full case with the pros or me. A lot of slow motion analysis shows that Fed and Nadal don’t have the most radical take back pronations and hit with straight arms, while pros that do have pretty radical take back pronations (Nadal, Wawrinka off the top of my head) have bent arms and pros with little, if any, take back pronations (Murray, Blake, Agassi) have bent arms as well. To try to build on this, I attempted to find a correlation between how parallel the racquet face gets to the court before the forward swing and if it results in a straight/bent arm swing, but found no real pattern. Could grip or footwork have something to do with it, I do not know. As for me, on some of my shots I have a straight arm and on others I don’t, and I’m not seeing a great reason as to why. I thought it could have been about the height of the oncoming ball, but there is not enough consistency to say that is so. The most apparent thing I see (and this should also be common sense) is that when I took the ball early, I almost always had a straight arm as I am reaching for the ball, but the opposite could not be said about late/close to the feet shots. Anyway, I found this interesting and will continue to look into it.

Please let me know what you think on this matter

TheLambsheadrep 01-25-2013 05:57 PM

By the way, the racquet is a Ti. Carbon 5001, and the strings are the FACTORY SYNTHETIC. That's right, I haven't changed out the strings yet, and I am still getting great results with spin, accuracy, and consistency. Can't wait to get some kevlar in there. And without getting too deep into another dividing topic, I did lead up the main racquet of the video to 383 grams, 7.5 pts HL, and SW of 365, so without the calculations in front of me i think the Mgr/I is just under 21. It feels absolutely awesome, so now I am also convinced there is something to Mgr/I.

Anton 01-25-2013 06:00 PM

Keep the right hand elbow down and bent on take back - the arm gets straight only right before impact

Anton 01-25-2013 06:06 PM

Oh and bend those knees, all the forehand and MG/i musings are moot with footwork like that.

TheLambsheadrep 01-25-2013 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anton (Post 7165461)
Keep the right hand elbow down and bent on take back - the arm gets straight only right before impact

so are you saying some of the shots are hit with a straight arm because incorrect take back/back swing technique?

TheLambsheadrep 01-25-2013 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anton (Post 7165477)
Oh and bend those knees, all the forehand and MG/i musings are moot with footwork like that.

During matches and even just hitting for fun when I'm being moved around I def get more knee bend. This was a casual session, but yes, knee bend is very important in the kinetic chain, so thanks for lookin' out for me haha

Anton 01-25-2013 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLambsheadrep (Post 7165551)
so are you saying some of the shots are hit with a straight arm because incorrect take back/back swing technique?


Don't worry so much if your arm is 100% straight or 90%, that will depend on timing and shot you are trying to hit. Federer does not always hit with a straight arm. Most important thing is to load up the wrist and throw the racket so it brushes the ball upwards (spin) and drives it forward(pace), straight arm is a small detail you shouldn't so much worry about.

Just bend that elbow in and from there relax the arm, let it smoothly fall down and behind a bit and just throw the racket forward and up with the tension build up in the shoulder and the wrist from rotation of the torso for effortless power and spin.

Its a bit complicated to explain but once you feel that effortless groove you'll understand. A higher weight/SW racket helps.

TheLambsheadrep 01-25-2013 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anton (Post 7165708)
Don't worry so much if your arm is 100% straight or 90%, that will depend on timing and shot you are trying to hit. Federer does not always hit with a straight arm. Most important thing is to load up the wrist and throw the racket so it brushes the ball upwards (spin) and drives it forward(pace), straight arm is a small detail you shouldn't so much worry about.

Just bend that elbow in and from there relax the arm, let it smoothly fall down and behind a bit and just throw the racket forward and up with the tension build up in the shoulder and the wrist from rotation of the torso for effortless power and spin.

Its a bit complicated to explain but once you feel that effortless groove you'll understand. A higher weight/SW racket helps.

I know you weren't talking about this, but I never knew that I hit some shots with a straight(ish) arm until I saw the footage. Now I want to know why I go between straight and bent since I am not doing it on purpose.

But you were talking about the elbow - so you want me to try to keep it closer to my body? More like the shot at 12 seconds in? I think out of the whole video that shot has my elbow tucked in the most (and it was a nice crack I must say), but I also didn't bring the racquet as far down/under the ball on the back swing, and I know from my experience that that shot has a very small margin of error. Should I be trying to do both (elbow in + still getting low/under the ball on the back swing)?

I did say that the racquet weight 383 grams (+13.5oz) and has a SW of 365, I don't think those factors need to be changed haha. Thanks for the tips, I'm still all ears

TheCheese 01-26-2013 12:00 AM

Your arm goes too far behind your body. Watch Fed/Nadal.

dominikk1985 01-26-2013 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCheese (Post 7166011)
Your arm goes too far behind your body. Watch Fed/Nadal.

yes. straight arm is good but you want the take back with bent elbow and extend at the transition from backswing to forward swing (because the arm is relaxed and the elbow going forward while the momentum carries the forearm still backwards)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmhvKafCYsk

your takeback costs a lot of time against hard balls. but I like your contact, looks clean.

TheCheese 01-26-2013 02:39 AM

You know I think it's so difficult to teach someone how to hit the straight arm/pronation technique forehand because it's so difficult to describe without bogging someone down with all these mechanical motions they're supposed to be performing.

Here's what you do:

1. Pronate your arm in the backswing.
2. Find the ball with your hand and brush up and across.

Anton 01-26-2013 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLambsheadrep (Post 7165729)
I know you weren't talking about this, but I never knew that I hit some shots with a straight(ish) arm until I saw the footage. Now I want to know why I go between straight and bent since I am not doing it on purpose.

But you were talking about the elbow - so you want me to try to keep it closer to my body? More like the shot at 12 seconds in? I think out of the whole video that shot has my elbow tucked in the most (and it was a nice crack I must say), but I also didn't bring the racquet as far down/under the ball on the back swing, and I know from my experience that that shot has a very small margin of error. Should I be trying to do both (elbow in + still getting low/under the ball on the back swing)?

I did say that the racquet weight 383 grams (+13.5oz) and has a SW of 365, I don't think those factors need to be changed haha. Thanks for the tips, I'm still all ears

Yea basically just keep the elbow down and close to your body on the take back, but right at the end of take back start smoothly straightening your arm (in downward direction since your elbow is still at body side) and relax it at that point. Body rotates forward. What this does is lets the racket fall down and behind the stroke and then throws it out and forward with up ward rotation around your now straight arm.

I don't see much difference at 12 seconds that you talk about.

Watch how federer does it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ime...e_gdata_player

pvaudio 01-26-2013 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anton (Post 7165477)
Oh and bend those knees, all the forehand and MG/i musings are moot with footwork like that.

This is all I came in here to say. Don't bend at the waist for low balls, drop your weight down instead.

Calor1 01-26-2013 08:53 AM

Honestly I stopped watching when after the 10th time you let it bounce twice in less than 30 seconds...
If you can't hit 10 balls in a row without letting one bounce twice you should stand a little closer.
Make sure you're basic technique is right and don't overthink too much.
Than hit a lot of balls and when you are able to hit at least 100 balls without missing you can start changing minor things if necessary.
http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/
This is a great site, take a look.

TheLambsheadrep 01-26-2013 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calor1 (Post 7167350)
Honestly I stopped watching when after the 10th time you let it bounce twice in less than 30 seconds...
If you can't hit 10 balls in a row without letting one bounce twice you should stand a little closer.
Make sure you're basic technique is right and don't overthink too much.
Than hit a lot of balls and when you are able to hit at least 100 balls without missing you can start changing minor things if necessary.
http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/
This is a great site, take a look.

The balls weren't from a new can and if you look at the wall, there's a lot of bad wood. Plus, you don't get as much return angle from a wall as you do a person. Just saying

TheLambsheadrep 01-26-2013 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvaudio (Post 7167310)
This is all I came in here to say. Don't bend at the waist for low balls, drop your weight down instead.

Thanks, I will go out next times and try to make it a habit

Relinquis 01-26-2013 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calor1 (Post 7167350)
Honestly I stopped watching when after the 10th time you let it bounce twice in less than 30 seconds...
If you can't hit 10 balls in a row without letting one bounce twice you should stand a little closer.
Make sure you're basic technique is right and don't overthink too much.
Than hit a lot of balls and when you are able to hit at least 100 balls without missing you can start changing minor things if necessary.
http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/
This is a great site, take a look.

I think it's not good to stay too close to the wall for ground strokes. You will be rushed and will start making shortcuts with your technique.

i actually think it's ok to let the ball bounce twice, or hit harder/deeper so that it bounces once (i prefer this as it is more realistic). The key is to be consistent.

TheLambsheadrep 01-26-2013 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relinquis (Post 7168148)
I think it's not good to stay too close to the wall for ground strokes. You will be rushed and will start making shortcuts with your technique.

i actually think it's ok to let the ball bounce twice, or hit harder/deeper so that it bounces once (i prefer this as it is more realistic). The key is to be consistent.

True. Plus, the distance of the service line on the tennis court to the hitting wall is about the length as the baseline to the net. It's a practice for full ground strokes, so if you're still hitting the aprox height on the wall as you would over the net, it doesn't matter how many times it bounces to you. The only downside is that you get a lot of ankle to knee high balls, but you can still get those in a match. It's not the prettiest thing to watch, but it is OK to do

TheLambsheadrep 01-26-2013 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dominikk1985 (Post 7166154)
yes. straight arm is good but you want the take back with bent elbow and extend at the transition from backswing to forward swing (because the arm is relaxed and the elbow going forward while the momentum carries the forearm still backwards)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmhvKafCYsk

your takeback costs a lot of time against hard balls. but I like your contact, looks clean.

Sitting here right now, I can feel the difference between keeping my elbow bent for a long time vs a short time on the take back – the long time motion is dictated by the arm/forearm, and I can feel the rotation of the racquet is more compact as it goes around my elbow like an upside down pendulum. The short time motion is dictated by my shoulder, which produces that higher-reaching and loopier back swing, and unless I willingly pull my elbow in to make it bend it doesn’t seem to bend again. So take back dictated by the elbow is good, while by the shoulder is bad…?

I am not necessarily striving for a straight arm forehand, but I do think I see what you're saying about still needing the elbow bend - the bend breaks the arm into two parts: arm above the elbow and arm below the elbow (forearm). After you go into the back swing (so momentum for the entire arm is backwards) with a bent yet loose entire arm, when you then go into the forward swing the arm above the elbow will lead the swing (with the help of a shoulder/core/hip turn). The pull from the bodily turns and upper arm (which now has forward momentum) plus the looseness of the entire arm will make the elbow un-bend/extend. Without the bend, the arm is just one moving part now and the forearm (which still has backward momentum or about no momentum at all) is yanked up to speed. Essentially, whiplash of the forearm straightens the full arm into the shot. Is this the long-winded way to say what you said?haha

I will work on the take back (see the other thread for that convo), and thanks for the contact compliment

TheLambsheadrep 01-26-2013 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anton (Post 7166974)
I don't see much difference at 12 seconds that you talk about.

Sorry, I was thinking you were talking about the elbow being close to the body at contact, not during the back swing. So you are correct with the lack of difference of that shot, my bad


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