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-   -   MTO should have some penalty (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=452531)

pinky42 01-25-2013 10:52 PM

MTO should have some penalty
 
I think MTO should be allowed but you should suffer some penalty for taking one. Maybe a loss of a game for every few minutes of treatment. It would be like boxing where you can take a knee if you need to gather yourself but you lose the round 8-10.

sbengte 01-25-2013 11:12 PM

I like the idea. A point penalty for every few minutes is fair. That way you can minimize the chances of MTOs being used for gamesmanship.

Bartelby 01-26-2013 12:00 AM

The MTO is probably there for the spectators so they're not robbed of a match, but a one point penalty per three minutes or some such is a reasonable payment for some work being done and a sufficient deterrent for the 'cheaters'..

North 01-26-2013 02:52 AM

I think the only penalty should be that you forfeit a game if you take the MTO on your opponent's serve.

sbengte 01-26-2013 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frying Pan Forehand (Post 7165932)
******** solution. So when a player really gets injured he loses the set and possibly the match there, no chance to continue playing without losing 3-4 games which means the set at least, so when you get injured you should just give up, right?

Well, fitness plays a big part in winning a tennis match, so if you really have an injury, it is just bad luck and you pay the price for it. This is a good compromise to prevent misuse of the MTO. The exact amount of points/games you forgo can be suitably adjusted based on the time taken, it need not be as drastic as forfeiting a game for even a minor timeout.

Bobby Jr 01-26-2013 05:41 AM

They should make it so you can't can't call for one if either player is within 2 games of winning the set. If you must do so then you forfeit the next game - unless it's an obvious acute injury like a rolled ankle. For everything else (blisters, sore back, thigh strain, mysterious rib ailment that no-one understands) it applies.

It seems like a practical solution in some ways and isn't overly harsh imo.

woodrow1029 01-26-2013 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Jr (Post 7166836)
They should make it so you can't can't call for one if either player is within 2 games of winning the set. If you must do so then you forfeit the next game - unless it's an obvious acute injury like a rolled ankle. For everything else (blisters, sore back, thigh strain, mysterious rib ailment that no-one understands) it applies.

It seems like a practical solution in some ways and isn't overly harsh imo.

It's hard to make a rule that seems objective, and then put subjectivity in it, such as "unless it's an obvious acute injury like a rolled ankle"'. You still make it the trainers call what's acute, and then it's hard still to determine if its a fake.

woodrow1029 01-26-2013 06:23 AM

I still suggest:

Mto can be taken only at 2 times:

1. During a set break;
2. Or before/during your own serve

If something happens before/during your opponents serve, you can forfeit points/game to get to your serve or the set break.

Something like this, you gotta make it the same for legit and illegit ones. Can't put any judgement or subjectivity in it, or it doesn't work.

sbengte 01-26-2013 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodrow1029 (Post 7166904)
Something like this, you gotta make it the same for legit and illegit ones. Can't put any judgement or subjectivity in it, or it doesn't work.

Yes, absolutely.

jokinla 01-26-2013 08:31 AM

Finally a thread on this.

*Sparkle* 01-26-2013 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frying Pan Forehand (Post 7165932)
So when a player really gets injured he loses the set and possibly the match there, no chance to continue playing without losing 3-4 games which means the set at least, so when you get injured you should just give up, right?

It would raise the danger of a player who might be able to be patched up enough to see out the next few games to win the match, would instead retire as the penalty is likely to take them to an extra set, or require a break of serve.

The subject does need to be reviewed, but the purpose of the MTO is to allow the game to continue so any adjustments need to be in the context of that.

Magnus 01-26-2013 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frying Pan Forehand (Post 7165932)
******** solution. So when a player really gets injured he loses the set and possibly the match there, no chance to continue playing without losing 3-4 games which means the set at least, so when you get injured you should just give up, right?

Lol. Trainers SHOULD NOT be allowed period. If you get injured to a point where you can't go on, retire. Else, keep playing. People like Nadal set the standards for dirty use of MTOs and now everyone does it. Enough with cheating!!! MTOs are used as bonus!

tennissportsrog 02-07-2013 02:09 AM

And, Nadal's two-year-ranking.

Tennis_Hands 02-07-2013 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinky42 (Post 7165879)
I think MTO should be allowed but you should suffer some penalty for taking one. Maybe a loss of a game for every few minutes of treatment. It would be like boxing where you can take a knee if you need to gather yourself but you lose the round 8-10.

On a list with potential unorthodox solutions for this problem, I would actually rate this option very highly.

Of course, what woodrow1029 suggests, is much more practical and probable to happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frying Pan Forehand
******** solution. So when a player really gets injured he loses the set and possibly the match there, no chance to continue playing without losing 3-4 games


Quote:

Originally Posted by Frying Pan Forehand
.....which means the set at least, so when you get injured you should just give up, right?.

Why? Do injuries occur only at the end of the set?

And, in the OP suggestion, it is said, that the injured player forfait a game for every few minutes. A game, not only HIS service games.

It is not specified in the OP, but, let's (for the sake of the argument) say, that it is 5 minutes for a game.

In a scenario, where the score is 4-4 (i.e.a scenario, wich is almost the worst possible, given the suggestion), the injured player will have 5+break between games+5+break between the sets, to sort out his problem, which is a reasonable time, should the player continue play, due to the nature of his injury (i.e. treatable in the given context).

Of course, there is always a possibility, that the player injures himself during a deciding last game in the last set(and he is trailing, say, at 5-6), but, it can always be included, that every player is entitled to have one "free" MTO on his own service game, to prevent such occurence.

mariecon 02-07-2013 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnus (Post 7167432)
Lol. Trainers SHOULD NOT be allowed period. If you get injured to a point where you can't go on, retire. Else, keep playing. People like Nadal set the standards for dirty use of MTOs and now everyone does it. Enough with cheating!!! MTOs are used as bonus!

yes. If you're not fit enough you don't deserve to win. I can see if a player twists their ankle or is obviously injured during play. But sometimes there is no indication whatsoever that a player is injured and they're just using the MTO as gamesmanship (I won't mention any names here). It's legal but that doesn't make it right.

vive le beau jeu ! 02-07-2013 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartelby (Post 7165937)
The MTO is probably there for the spectators so they're not robbed of a match, but a one point penalty per three minutes or some such is a reasonable payment for some work being done and a sufficient deterrent for the 'cheaters'..

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodrow1029 (Post 7166904)
I still suggest:

Mto can be taken only at 2 times:

1. During a set break;
2. Or before/during your own serve

If something happens before/during your opponents serve, you can forfeit points/game to get to your serve or the set break.

Something like this, you gotta make it the same for legit and illegit ones. Can't put any judgement or subjectivity in it, or it doesn't work.

i like the idea ! :)




Gonzo_style 02-07-2013 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinky42 (Post 7165879)
I think MTO should be allowed but you should suffer some penalty for taking one. Maybe a loss of a game for every few minutes of treatment. It would be like boxing where you can take a knee if you need to gather yourself but you lose the round 8-10.

Hi Sloane Stephens :)

DropShotArtist 02-07-2013 06:39 AM

This is a good idea. Why should the opposing player not gain a benefit the injured player has? Even if the injury was not due to lack of fitness but rather an accident, a letcord is accidental too, and you lose a point there.

slal1984 02-07-2013 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DropShotArtist (Post 7197502)
This is a good idea. Why should the opposing player not gain a benefit the injured player has? Even if the injury was not due to lack of fitness but rather an accident, a letcord is accidental too, and you lose a point there.


And while the injured player is being tended to, the opponent who is all warmed up has to sit and will/may loose all their momentum, get cold, loose their focus..etc. Kinda like why sometimes NBA coaches take timeouts...How is this fair?

dman72 02-07-2013 07:15 AM

Simply give the players two 3 minute timeouts per match, to be used as they want....or one 3 and one 10 minute. If you can't get back on the court after 10 minutes due to an injury, you're done anyway.


That stops all the fake injury timeouts. You have the option of using your timeouts to take momentum away from your opponent, or hold them in reserve for an actual injury.


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