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-   -   Li Na Too inconsistent to be a multiple slam champion (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=452624)

Amelie Mauresmo 01-26-2013 03:41 PM

Li Na Too inconsistent to be a multiple slam champion
 
The media kept on going on and on about Carlos Rodriguez helping Li Na's game. She did well to reach the Australian Open final but she was too over anxious trying to finish the points making stupid errors which cost her the match. Azarenka seemed to realize that Li is too hot and cold of a player not a very consistent player. All Victoria had to do was wait for Li to hit a rough patch make some mistakes and she capitalized.

I thought Li Na had so many chance to win against Azarenka but her silly errors cost her the match. In the first set, Li Na had a floater so instead of waiting and just simply drive the ball she tries the more difficult swing volley and loses the game Azarenka breaks back for 3-2. Li Na barely hung on to win the first set 6-4.

In the second set, Li Na had a chance to make it 3-3 she had 0-40 on Azarenka's serve yet loses the game. I think she lost the match right there. Just too many mistakes by Li Na against Azarenka to win the match.

Spin Doctor 01-26-2013 04:53 PM

She is streaky for sure. Its mental with her. She doesn't seem to do well when she is expected to win. She played well against Radwanska and Pova because nobody expected her to win those matches. She won the French Open because nobody expected her to be in the final, let alone win it. Today when everyone really wanted her to win, she choked.

Azarenka wasn't playing that well but Li sucked even worse and had so many chances to take the match. Her errors were brutal. This match was painful to watch on so many levels. Its really pathetic for the WTA to have so many crappy finals whereas the men's finals are usually top notch, even if they are a bit too long.

She's a head case. Rodriguez has some work to do but he needs a shrink to help him.

v-verb 01-26-2013 04:55 PM

Don't forget Li Na slammed her head pretty hard the second time she fell

bluetrain4 01-26-2013 05:11 PM

I agree and I don't agree.

First, I generally agree because, you're right, she's too streaky - from match to match, game to game, point to point. she had more than a few chances yesterday, but really sprayed a LOT of balls in the second half of the second set and the third. That's always been Li. In fact, I'd call her an overachiever. That she's won a Slam and been in two other finals is pretty amazing. I can understand the little forehand tweaks getting lost as the pressure grew and she sort of reverted to her old forehand and predictably missed a lot. But, her wins over Radwanska and Sharapova showed me that she can play multiple, smart, decent matches, and she kept it together emotionally more than previously.

I disagree, because, simply, she has the game - the weapons, the movement, the experience, and there is always a chance that her more "off" days come against players where she can still pull out a win, and her "on" days come during an important match - like the Sharapova match. If she says healthy, while I don't expect to her to win another Slam, I would be totally unsurprised if she did. She's no different than Kuznetsova who is just as wildly inconsistent and who managed to win multiple Slams.

I never thought we'd see her in a final again after the 2011 AO final. Then she wins the French in 2011, and then proceeds to go into a year and a half Slam tailspin. At that point I never thought we'd see her in a final again, yet here she is, and she had a legit chance to win.

Ugh, I can't stand Azarenka and her shrieking and gamesmanship, but kudos to her. She deserved it and played better down the stretch. Chris Evert called her a "street fighter" and I thought the description was apt. While I generally cringe at Azarenka, I can't help but respect her "I don't give a f**k what anyone says or anyone thinks" attitude. Helps her ignore the media blasting of her after he match against Stephens, and helps her tune out the crowd being against her.

jaggy 01-26-2013 05:17 PM

Its the wta, inconsistency isnt that unusual and she should win a few

martini1 01-26-2013 07:23 PM

She did hit a slum after her FO win but she is with a new coach now and u can already see the results. She has been extremely consistent and that's how she beat Masha like it's a 2nd round match. It was unfortunate she rolled her ankle not once but twice. The Mto's along with the firework gave Vika a lot of time to recompose. She even got extra time to work on her serve. You don't think that plays in a big factor how she lost?

I do agree her service game was no up to par in the final. But Vika was nervous as well. She will get better mentally with the new coach. This is only the begginning of the year! If she stays healthy she will play for another final again real soon. Like in FO.

NadalAgassi 01-26-2013 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluetrain4 (Post 7168632)
She's no different than Kuznetsova who is just as wildly inconsistent and who managed to win multiple Slams.

I disagree:

1. Kuznetsova in her first prime from 2004-2009 (I am hoping she is now entering her second prime, fingers crossed, hence why I said that), was very consistent, regularly reaching quarters or atleast round of 16s of slams, reaching tournament finals, mantaining a high ranking usually in atleast the top 10. She was just usually either outplayed or couldnt quite step up mentally or in execution in given matches, but she was not inconsistent.

2. Kuznetsova has a multi faceted game with different dimensions and options she can go to. While she might be known as primarily a power player she is by no means just a power player. Na Li is pretty much just a power player, and has nowhere to go when her main game is failing her.

3. Kuznetsova still had the mental strength to step up for given matches as her 4 slam semis and 2 slam final wins prove. Na is still quite weak mentally and so only wins when her main game is somewhat on.

NadalAgassi 01-26-2013 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martini1 (Post 7168859)
The Mto's along with the firework gave Vika a lot of time to recompose. She even got extra time to work on her serve. You don't think that plays in a big factor how she lost?

No, stop making excuses for her. She blew it, plain and simple, and it was all on her. All day long she had tons of break points and kept failing to convert, and she initially played better after the worst fall, and then blew chances and fell apart mentally again. Without the two falls she loses by exactly the same score as she did.

martini1 02-02-2013 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi (Post 7168870)
No, stop making excuses for her. She blew it, plain and simple, and it was all on her. All day long she had tons of break points and kept failing to convert, and she initially played better after the worst fall, and then blew chances and fell apart mentally again. Without the two falls she loses by exactly the same score as she did.

I would have to disagree on that. Both played horrible for she did injured her ankle with the very first fall. You can see the pain on her face, and her movement is compromised since.

Relinquis 02-03-2013 04:52 AM

she took the defending champion to three sets even though she rolled her ankle twice and hit her head on the court floor. Yet you guys are accusing Li Na of being 'inconsistent' she's awesome and will get a slam this year or next.

It amazes me that people talk about Li Na as mentally weak, yet go on and on about how 'cool-headed' Stephanie Stephens is and how 'unfair' and 'cheater' it was for Azarenka to take an MTO when she straight setted her. the woman almost choked away her chance playing against a limping and injured Serena Williams.

I don't see how both statements can be true.

boredone3456 02-03-2013 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relinquis (Post 7188174)
she took the defending champion to three sets even though she rolled her ankle twice and hit her head on the court floor. Yet you guys are accusing Li Na of being 'inconsistent' she's awesome and will get a slam this year or next.

It amazes me that people talk about Li Na as mentally weak, yet go on and on about how 'cool-headed' Stephanie Stephens is and how 'unfair' and 'cheater' it was for Azarenka to take an MTO when she straight setted her. the woman almost choked away her chance playing against a limping and injured Serena Williams.

I don't see how both statements can be true.

Her name is Sloane Stephens not Stephanie Stephens..

Tanya 02-03-2013 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relinquis (Post 7188174)
It amazes me that people talk about Li Na as mentally weak, yet go on and on about how 'cool-headed' Stephanie Stephens is and how 'unfair' and 'cheater' it was for Azarenka to take an MTO when she straight setted her. the woman almost choked away her chance playing against a limping and injured Serena Williams.

I don't see how both statements can be true.

Did you even see the match? I'm guessing you didn't. Azarenka was up comfortably against Sloane Stephens until late in the second set where, as Stephens cleaned up her game, Victoria became visibly frustrated and blew 5 match points by committing errors. This put the girls back on serve with Stephens serving at 4-5 as Azarenka took her "medical" timeout. Give me a break--oh, and also try to know what you're talking about before you say it.

Relinquis 02-03-2013 11:20 AM

apologies for the typo. yes i did watch the matches*.

the point stand though. if Sloane was mentally strong she would have been 'consistent' enough to at least get a set off of Vika, but she wasn't strong enough mentally (or maybe her game isn't good enough yet). Li Na was, is, mentally tough; she took out several top seeds on her way to the final where she took a set off of Vika, then injured herself. i dont' see how someone could look at Li Na's performance in this Aussie Open and say that she isn't mentally tough.


* I don't watch much WTA, but watched Stephens Vs. Williams, Stephens Vs. Azarenka and Li Na's last three matches of the Aussie Open in full. I also saw a few of the other matches.

Tanya 02-03-2013 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relinquis (Post 7188812)
apologies for the typo. yes i did watch the matches*.

the point stand though. if Sloane was mentally strong she would have been 'consistent' enough to at least get a set off of Vika, but she wasn't strong enough mentally (or maybe her game isn't good enough yet). Li Na was, is, mentally tough; she took out several top seeds on her way to the final where she took a set off of Vika, then injured herself. i dont' see how someone could look at Li Na's performance in this Aussie Open and say that she isn't mentally tough.


* I don't watch much WTA, but watched Stephens Vs. Williams, Stephens Vs. Azarenka and Li Na's last three matches of the Aussie Open in full. I also saw a few of the other matches.

You're comparing Li Na, an experienced veteran grand slam champion to Sloane Stephens, a teenage up-and-comer who made it to the semifinals of a grand slam for the first time. The expectations for mental toughness from these two women are very different. Li Na was dictating play in the final, and due to her inability to keep it together at the crucial moments (eg: error Na) she lost the match. Had she played like she did against Sharapova throughout the match, she'd have won the final in straight sets as well. The "injuries" she "suffered" in that final are being highly blown out of proportion--she was FINE. Her level of play was consistently inconsistent throughout the match, pointing to a lack of mental toughness. What aren't you understanding?

As for Sloane Stephens, she showed great poise in ousting Serena Williams and cleaning up her game against Azarenka when the going got tough--so much so that Azarenka's own mental strength waned and opened the door for Sloane to make a comeback, just like against Williams in the previous round. THAT is why she is mentally tough, because she remained calm in such situations where a 19yr old who has never before been in that position and even had chances to go all the way.

Spin Doctor 02-03-2013 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tanya (Post 7189195)
Li Na was dictating play in the final, and due to her inability to keep it together at the crucial moments (eg: error Na) she lost the match. Had she played like she did against Sharapova throughout the match, she'd have won the final in straight sets as well. The "injuries" she "suffered" in that final are being highly blown out of proportion--she was FINE. Her level of play was consistently inconsistent throughout the match, pointing to a lack of mental toughness....

Bang on. She played great against Pova and Radwanska. If she had played at that same level in the final, she would have won. Her injuries didn't seem to be affecting her game at all. She was blowing shots well before she turned her ankle. She looked tight right from the start of the match.

I wouldn't count Li Na out for winning a future slam but it will happen when we least expect it (after everyone has counted her out). She just doesn't seem capable of handling pressure.

NadalAgassi 02-03-2013 07:53 PM

I think Na is one of the few people who would rather play say Serena Williams in a slam final. Since she would feel no pressure, everyone would expect her to lose no matter how well she was playing going in, and she could swing from her heels which is when she plays her best. She still might lose, it is Serena after all, but she would be unlikely to be encumbered by nerves and choking. Even playing Sharapova in the final instead of the semis would have been a better situation for her. Someone like Azarenka I think while she respects and knows that she is a great player, she feels she is capable of easily overpowering (which she is) and that she should beat if she holds her sh1t together, and I think that makes things harder on her mentally just the way she tends to think.

Amelie Mauresmo 02-05-2013 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi (Post 7189801)
I think Na is one of the few people who would rather play say Serena Williams in a slam final. Since she would feel no pressure, everyone would expect her to lose no matter how well she was playing going in, and she could swing from her heels which is when she plays her best. She still might lose, it is Serena after all, but she would be unlikely to be encumbered by nerves and choking. Even playing Sharapova in the final instead of the semis would have been a better situation for her. Someone like Azarenka I think while she respects and knows that she is a great player, she feels she is capable of easily overpowering (which she is) and that she should beat if she holds her sh1t together, and I think that makes things harder on her mentally just the way she tends to think.

Li Na does have the ability to beat anyone when the pressure isn't on her. Against Agnieszka Radwanska and Maria Sharapova Li Na was the underdog no pressure and she won.

However, once there is pressure on Li Na like the final when many people thought she had a real chance to win she crumbles. Li made too many silly errors at crucial times. For instance, Li had a 3-1 lead to go up 4-1 why did she make the stupid swing volley shot she missed it by a mile! If Li had just let the ball drop she would of won the point. I knew from that game on that Azarenka was going to get into the match she was very fortunate to have won the first set 6-4. I think if Azarenka had gotten the match to 5-5 she would have won the match in straight sets.

spperry 02-19-2013 10:28 PM

That is just her game.

I don't see her playing any other way, if she gets it together in latter stages of GS she has a good chance of winning another one.

Relinquis 02-20-2013 04:46 AM

yeah, the fact that she injured her self during the match is irrelevant... what logic!

ultradr 02-20-2013 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spperry (Post 7225799)
That is just her game.

I don't see her playing any other way, if she gets it together in latter stages of GS she has a good chance of winning another one.

+1,

I don't think she had international junior circuit experiences.
Plus she retired from tennis to graduate college.

Considering these, it's amazing how she plays. She is aiming
the tennis of high level. She could have achieve much more,
if she concentrated more on tennis.


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