Talk Tennis

Talk Tennis (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php)
-   Tennis Tips/Instruction (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17)
-   -   Misconceptions about Djokovic's strokes (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=452754)

sureshs 01-27-2013 09:00 AM

Misconceptions about Djokovic's strokes
 
He does not have a compact swing with sudden acceleration as claimed by many. On both his forehand and backhand, he has long smooth swings. On the backhand, he has a simple linear take-back like the WTA. On the forehand, his loop is simpler than many others.

His occasional blocking shots with a short fast swing have misled people.

His money strokes are hit with long smooth swings.

The Meat 01-27-2013 09:33 AM

Common misconception: He adds a little flare to his shots to make them look like he's trying hard.

sureshs 01-27-2013 09:36 AM

Another misconception that is nicely busted by Djokovic's backhand is the myth that both CC and DTL shots can be hit without different directions of extension. Absolutely not the case. Djokovic's DTL BHs involve significant extension towards that target which is noticeably different from the CC BH.

sureshs 01-27-2013 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meat (Post 7171914)
Common misconception: He adds a little flare to his shots to make them look like he's trying hard.

You mean flair? Like in flourish?

Yes, there is a certain flashiness. Even his backhand slices seem so have more flair than those of others.

dominikk1985 01-27-2013 10:09 AM

To me it seems like fed and nadal are not really using a classic loop. yes they have a little loop but they drop the arm (while extending it) quite slowly and then accelerate on the way up. so they are not really using gravity and the actual swing is relatively short

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjBXVQyiwg

that is really different from the big gravity loop that gonzales uses
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E40rfx3rYc

Xizel 01-27-2013 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dominikk1985 (Post 7172039)
To me it seems like fed and nadal are not really using a classic loop. yes they have a little loop but they drop the arm (while extending it) quite slowly and then accelerate on the way up. so they are not really using gravity and the actual swing is relatively short

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjBXVQyiwg

that is really different from the big gravity loop that gonzales uses
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E40rfx3rYc

I do notice that straight-arm forehands like Verdasco have very sudden acceleration from the backswing to forward swing.

10isfreak 01-27-2013 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7171799)
He does not have a compact swing with sudden acceleration as claimed by many. On both his forehand and backhand, he has long smooth swings. On the backhand, he has a simple linear take-back like the WTA. On the forehand, his loop is simpler than many others.

His occasional blocking shots with a short fast swing have misled people.

His money strokes are hit with long smooth swings.

Djokovic's forehand swing path is probably the lengthiest in the top four. He actually had troubles in his earlier days. His strokes were not as imposing as they currently are and his court coverage was much less extensive... any deep ball affected deeply his game play, which allowed Federer and the likes to pile up victories against him.

With a fitter body condition and a better court coverage, he is in better position to neutralize the efforts of his opponents, which gives him the time to wind up. But if you hit too flat and deep, his big swing will start to play against him just like it used to.

jakeytennis 01-27-2013 11:29 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCxrrNSulwg

here is Nadal accelerating around contact point.

not sure how Novak's acceleration is exactly, but probly similar.

dominikk1985 01-27-2013 12:50 PM

Well of course the acceleration is greatest short before contact. however that doesn't mean players first swing slowly and then accelerate gradually.

the reason for the late and steep incline of the velocity curve is that the final stages of the kinematic chain fire quite late in the swing. and just like a whip because those links are the lightest in the chain they also create the most speed.

earlier in the swing you accelerate just as hard, however at this point the slower and bigger (but stronger) parts of the body are doing the job. in that phase not much speed is generated but a lot of the energy needed for the final parts of the chain.

aimr75 01-27-2013 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7171799)
On the backhand, he has a simple linear take-back like the WTA.

Most WTA 2hbh take backs aren't a straight linear turn with the arms. They usually have a loop, so is more like a big reverse C. Arm configurations are almost always bent/bent. Many ATP 2 handers are straight/bent which djokovic also employs unless a bit out of position.

julian 01-27-2013 02:25 PM

Djokovic will be moved to the women's ladder for 2014
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7171799)
He does not have a compact swing with sudden acceleration as claimed by many. On both his forehand and backhand, he has long smooth swings. On the backhand, he has a simple linear take-back like the WTA. On the forehand, his loop is simpler than many others.

His occasional blocking shots with a short fast swing have misled people.

His money strokes are hit with long smooth swings.

I am completely confused
Please see
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPBM-hE1Dhw
How come WTA is there?

chico9166 01-27-2013 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dominikk1985 (Post 7172482)
Well of course the acceleration is greatest short before contact. however that doesn't mean players first swing slowly and then accelerate gradually.

the reason for the late and steep incline of the velocity curve is that the final stages of the kinematic chain fire quite late in the swing. and just like a whip because those links are the lightest in the chain they also create the most speed.

earlier in the swing you accelerate just as hard, however at this point the slower and bigger (but stronger) parts of the body are doing the job. in that phase not much speed is generated but a lot of the energy needed for the final parts of the chain.

I basically agree with this. In a Fed, or Djoker, or Nadal forehand the first part of the forward swing is very linear. That is the position of the racquet (because it stays to the right side of the body) creates a very direct line to the ball....The racquet is of course accelerating, in this linear buttcap to ball pulling action. BUT, the bulk of acceleration occurs as the arm starts to rotate to create angular speed....So the equation for these guys is to pull the racquet in a linear fashion and then rotate the racquet around the hand...This transition is where the racquet really begins to pick up speed.

julian 01-27-2013 03:00 PM

A bit different for two directions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dominikk1985 (Post 7172482)
Well of course the acceleration is greatest short before contact. however that doesn't mean players first swing slowly and then accelerate gradually.

the reason for the late and steep incline of the velocity curve is that the final stages of the kinematic chain fire quite late in the swing. and just like a whip because those links are the lightest in the chain they also create the most speed.

earlier in the swing you accelerate just as hard, however at this point the slower and bigger (but stronger) parts of the body are doing the job. in that phase not much speed is generated but a lot of the energy needed for the final parts of the chain.

A bit different for two directions
For the vertical component the significant acceleration 11 seconds before the contact
See my previous posts on this subject as well.

sureshs 01-27-2013 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by julian (Post 7172695)
I am completely confused
Please see
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPBM-hE1Dhw
How come WTA is there?

Hmmm looked very simple and straight on TV.....

julian 01-29-2013 05:00 PM

Comparison of Djokovic and Wozniacki
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI2O8yXJrhY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPBM-hE1Dhw

According to OP both are WTA now.
I have sent an E-mail to ATP to move Djokovic and his rank to www.wtatennis.com
How do we know that the backhand of Wozniacki is better than the backhand of Djokovic?


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:57 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2006 - Tennis Warehouse