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-   -   Azarenka - Hall of Fame as of right now? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=452816)

bluetrain4 01-27-2013 06:14 PM

Azarenka - Hall of Fame as of right now?
 
Clearly, she's young and will most likely achieve more in her career such that the question of her HOF membership will not even be debatable.

But, as of right now (if her career ended today), would she be in?

2 Slams, 1 Slam runner-up, 15 overall titles (including 5 Premiere/Tier 1), No. 1 ranking.

I'd say, even if she does nothing else, she'd be in as of today.

I was going to start the same thread if Li won. 2 Slams and 1 Slam runner-up would have at least raised the question of HOF membership, but the rest of her resume is relatively thin. She has some intangibles - first Asian woman to win a singles Slam, for example, but I still think it would be a tough sell for HOF membership, even if she had those 2 Slams. But, you never know with the HOF.

NadalAgassi 01-27-2013 06:54 PM

Yes she will undoubtably be in the Hall of Fame. No question about it.

As for Na she might make it even right now given what a joke the Hall of Fame is. Mostly due to what a trailblazing series of feats she did for China. She needs to win another slam to be totally secure, but I would guess her making it even if she doesnt. Since Yannick Noah made it in with the help of intangible reasoning, rather than strictly his actual tennis and career which his one shock major aside wasnt all that great, I fully expect she will; especialy as she has much more intangible reasoning in her favor than he does, and probably a more impressive career considering the 3 slam finals as well.

On another note I expect Stosur will even be inducted due to her body of work (singles and doubles), and Martinez will at some point too. That said Wozniacki, Dementieva, Safina, and Jankovic will never be inducted.

bluetrain4 01-27-2013 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi (Post 7173271)
Yes she will undoubtably be in the Hall of Fame. No question about it.

As for Na she might make it even right now given what a joke the Hall of Fame is. Mostly due to what a trailblazing series of feats she did for China. She needs to win another slam to be totally secure, but I would guess her making it even if she doesnt.

On another note I expect Stosur will even be inducted due to her body of work (singles and doubles), and Martinez will at some point too. That said Wozniacki, Dementieva, Safina, and Jankovic will never be inducted.

Martinez would actually be a really good 1-Slam pick based on a lot of factors. She has a Wimbledon title, 2 other Slam finals (on two other surfaces), 33! overall titles on all surfaces (including 9 Tier 1s), Fed Cup titles, doubles titles, No. 2 ranking, a TON of other Slam SFs and QFs (showing consistency and longevity). BUT, if the HOF is going to have 1-Slam winners, she's missing one thing - she has an awful record against the top players of her era - 1-13 vs. Graf, 1-20 vs. Seles, 4-14 vs. ASV. She never beat the Williams or Henin, but most of those matchups were when she was past her prime, so I'm more willing to excuse that. It's not so much the miserable records (any number of very good/great players are going to have poor records against legends), but she just doesn't have a BIG win over Graf, Seles, or ASV (well, she did beat ASV in a Slam SF at some point). I don't think it has to keep her out of the HOF, but it isn't good.

bluetrain4 01-27-2013 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi (Post 7173271)
Yes she will undoubtably be in the Hall of Fame. No question about it.

As for Na she might make it even right now given what a joke the Hall of Fame is. Mostly due to what a trailblazing series of feats she did for China. She needs to win another slam to be totally secure, but I would guess her making it even if she doesnt. Since Yannick Noah made it in with the help of intangible reasoning, rather than strictly his actual tennis and career which his one shock major aside wasnt all that great, I fully expect she will; especialy as she has much more intangible reasoning in her favor than he does, and probably a more impressive career considering the 3 slam finals as well.

On another note I expect Stosur will even be inducted due to her body of work (singles and doubles), and Martinez will at some point too. That said Wozniacki, Dementieva, Safina, and Jankovic will never be inducted.

What were Noah's intangibles? He wasn't the first black man to win a Slam. Ashe had already won the AO, Wimbledon, and the USO. I guess he was the first black man to win the French -- but that doesn't seem like much given, again, that he wasn't the first black man to win a Slam overall, and the rest of his Slam resume is fairly thin (8 QFs and 1 SF).

I'm guessing first black french open winner maybe was a minor factor, but not a major one. That combined with the fact that he was a "character" and the fact that he captained both Davis Cup and Fed Cup teams to victory - has anyone else done this? (The more I think about it, the more I think this mattered a lot). 23 overall titles, as well, which isn't otherworldly, but pretty good.

NadalAgassi 01-27-2013 07:30 PM

Noah's intangibles were his personality, his charisma, being black, the excitment his win caused and being the first for a Frenchmen in the post World War 11 years I believe (could be wrong on that). That plus as you said his coaching exploits for the French. Still think Na has made more intangible effort though, just by what she has brought to tennis awareness in that part of the World, and I think her career is better since 3 slam finals trump 1 even with all of Noah's extra small tournament wins. I believe both won hardly any tier 1 or Masters type events, 1 each or something.

I know Martinez was useless vs the best of her era, but I still fully expect her to make it in at some point. Her singles credentials are too much to ignore given their recent inductees. She beat ASV in the semis of the 2000 French btw to make her only final there (where she lost a very winnable match to Mary Pierce).

Like I said I predict Na and Stosur to make it in as well. Bump this thread in 2020 or so and you will see I was right.

Dedans Penthouse 01-27-2013 07:49 PM

S k a n k e r a n k a
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bluetrain4 (Post 7173150)
Clearly, she's young and will most likely achieve more in her career such that the question of her HOF membership will not even be debatable.

But, as of right now (if her career ended today),

would she be in?

Yes. The HOF will have a sound-proof wing for her.

NadalDramaQueen 01-27-2013 07:54 PM

Hall of shame.

Moose Malloy 01-27-2013 07:56 PM

Quote:

That combined with the fact that he was a "character" and the fact that he captained both Davis Cup and Fed Cup teams to victory - has anyone else done this?
In 1991 he captained the French to their first Davis Cup win since the 30s. That was huge(the HOF values Davis Cup very highly. look at some of the lesser known names that got in over the years, often Davis Cup was the main reason)

And I mentioned this to you in another thread - the HOF ceremony is a big deal in terms of maintaining the HOF. They prefer to induct people that will show up & make fans buy tickets & travel there.

Its not like the Baseball HOF, where its not a big deal if they go years without inducting anyone, they need these ceremonies to survive.

Right now, I don't see Azarenka or Ni La causing fans to flock to Newport to see them getting inducted.

bluetrain4 01-27-2013 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moose Malloy (Post 7173415)
In 1991 he captained the French to their first Davis Cup win since the 30s. That was huge(the HOF values Davis Cup very highly. look at some of the lesser known names that got in over the years, often Davis Cup was the main reason)

And I mentioned this to you in another thread - the HOF ceremony is a big deal in terms of maintaining the HOF. They prefer to induct people that will show up & make fans buy tickets & travel there.

Its not like the Baseball HOF, where its not a big deal if they go years without inducting anyone, they need these ceremonies to survive.

Right now, I don't see Azarenka or Ni La causing fans to flock to Newport to see them getting inducted.

But, Azarenka will no doubt get in regardless, I'm assuming, based on her accomplishments (I'm assuming she'll add a couple of more Slams). Sure, they want the big names and big personalities that will attract people, but there are also the players who basically have to be inducted based on tennis accomplishments even if they aren't a big draw.

Leelord337 01-27-2013 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluetrain4 (Post 7173150)
Clearly, she's young and will most likely achieve more in her career such that the question of her HOF membership will not even be debatable.

But, as of right now (if her career ended today), would she be in?

2 Slams, 1 Slam runner-up, 15 overall titles (including 5 Premiere/Tier 1), No. 1 ranking.

I'd say, even if she does nothing else, she'd be in as of today.

I was going to start the same thread if Li won. 2 Slams and 1 Slam runner-up would have at least raised the question of HOF membership, but the rest of her resume is relatively thin. She has some intangibles - first Asian woman to win a singles Slam, for example, but I still think it would be a tough sell for HOF membership, even if she had those 2 Slams. But, you never know with the HOF.

she won several mixed doubles slams w/mirnyi as well

NadalAgassi 01-27-2013 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moose Malloy (Post 7173415)
In 1991 he captained the French to their first Davis Cup win since the 30s. That was huge(the HOF values Davis Cup very highly. look at some of the lesser known names that got in over the years, often Davis Cup was the main reason)

And I mentioned this to you in another thread - the HOF ceremony is a big deal in terms of maintaining the HOF. They prefer to induct people that will show up & make fans buy tickets & travel there.

Its not like the Baseball HOF, where its not a big deal if they go years without inducting anyone, they need these ceremonies to survive.

Right now, I don't see Azarenka or Ni La causing fans to flock to Newport to see them getting inducted.

I think you are wrong on the last part. A whole bunch of Chinese would fly in to see Na inducted. As for Azarenka she will have a big enough fan base by the end of her career to bring in a good audience as well, anyway it doesnt matter, she will have achieved enough (already has really) they have no choice.

OTMPut 01-27-2013 09:36 PM

Slow court tennis is quite unpredictable.

Li looked like a sure winner until her ankle did her in.
A lot of Nadal projections looked similar (he is 23, look at his slam count, blah blah).

Statistical regression may be a "natural" human tool. But life has other plans. Perhaps no plans is more accurate.

Cfidave 01-28-2013 03:16 AM

Pam Shriver got inducted, anything is possible.

Phoenix1983 01-28-2013 04:06 AM

Azarenka will be inducted. Whether RedFoo ever gets inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is another matter...

cknobman 01-28-2013 07:54 AM

I did not know they had a hall of fame for cheating loud mouth beeches.

THUNDERVOLLEY 01-28-2013 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moose Malloy (Post 7173415)

Right now, I don't see Azarenka or Ni La causing fans to flock to Newport to see them getting inducted.

Based on what? Bitter message board members who cannot stand the fact she outplayed Stephens and Li Na with her skill? Oh, the horror! There is no widespread negative outcry about Azarenka, and as she will undoubtedly win more majors, her stature in the sport grows.

THUNDERVOLLEY 01-28-2013 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix1983 (Post 7173966)
Azarenka will be inducted. Whether RedFoo ever gets inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is another matter...

If U2 got in, anyone can.

TMF 01-28-2013 08:32 AM

Hall of Fame as a tennis player...yes.
Hall of Class...NO


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