Talk Tennis

Talk Tennis (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php)
-   General Pro Player Discussion (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13)
-   -   Could Djokovic hypothetically become a Tier 1 great? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=453250)

kragster 01-31-2013 09:17 AM

Could Djokovic hypothetically become a Tier 1 great?
 
Where I define Tier 1 as Federer/Laver/Sampras, Tier 2 as Borg/Nadal and Tier 3 as Agassi/Connors/Lendl etc.

I wanted to create a scenario which is a stretch but still not out of reach (for example 17 slams is completely out of reach). Just for the sake of playing the game, let's say Djokovic ends up with the following record:

12 slams
175 weeks at no 1 (5th best)
4 consecutive year end no 1s (2011-2014)
Only player to win all masters events
Master Titles leader
Career Slam
3-4 WTF
80% + W-L record
Leading H2H vs 3 biggest rivals - Fed/Nadal/Murray

Would Djoker be considered a Tier 1 great in this scenario? When people have their GOAT debates, would his name be in the pool?

djokovic2008 01-31-2013 09:19 AM

Yes but he will get more than 12 slams so what then.

DeShaun 01-31-2013 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kragster (Post 7182295)
Where I define Tier 1 as Federer/Laver/Sampras, Tier 2 as Borg/Nadal and Tier 3 as Agassi/Connors/Lendl etc.

I wanted to create a scenario which is a stretch but still not out of reach (for example 17 slams is completely out of reach). Just for the sake of playing the game, let's say Djokovic ends up with the following record:

12 slams
175 weeks at no 1 (5th best)
4 consecutive year end no 1s (2011-2014)
Only player to win all masters events
Master Titles leader
Career Slam
3-4 WTF
80% + W-L record
Leading H2H vs 3 biggest rivals - Fed/Nadal/Murray

Would Djoker be considered a Tier 1 great in this scenario? When people have their GOAT debates, would his name be in the pool?

I think with 13 or more slams he'll take his seat at the table.

kishnabe 01-31-2013 09:27 AM

Tier 1: Federer, Sampras, Borg, Nadal, Laver

Tier 2: Emerson, Possibly Djokovic(10 slams), Agassi, Rosewall, McEnroe, Connors, Lendl

Tier 3: Becker, Edberg, Djokovic right now, Willander, Courier

Tier 4: Roddick, Chang, Hewitt, Ivanisevic, Rafter, Muster, Del Potro

Tier 5: Tsonga, Monfils, Rudeski, Haas, Berdych, all slam finalists or mutlple semifinalists

Tier 6:

Tier 7: Murray

kragster 01-31-2013 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kishnabe (Post 7182326)
Tier 1: Federer, Sampras, Borg, Nadal, Laver

Tier 2: Emerson, Possibly Djokovic(10 slams), Agassi, Rosewall, McEnroe, Connors, Lendl

Tier 3: Becker, Edberg, Djokovic right now, Willander, Courier

Tier 4: Roddick, Chang, Hewitt, Ivanisevic, Rafter, Muster, Del Potro

Tier 5: Tsonga, Monfils, Rudeski, Haas, Berdych, all slam finalists or mutlple semifinalists

Tier 6:

Tier 7: Murray

Lol, whats with the Murray hate.

Also I think Borg and Rafa are awesome, but not Tier 1 - it's Borg's fault for retiring early and Rafa needs to win 1 more non FO slam IMO to be Tier 1.

paulorenzo 01-31-2013 09:34 AM

yes, that would be a pretty impressive resume. hypothetically tier 1 worthy.

he can potentially achieve more. with the way playing conditions have changed, and with federer and nadal's decline, he has the biggest chance of achieving a CYGS out of anyone on tour. he isnt a shoe in, but there is a real chance.

fed_rulz 01-31-2013 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kragster (Post 7182295)
Where I define Tier 1 as Federer/Laver/Sampras, Tier 2 as Borg/Nadal and Tier 3 as Agassi/Connors/Lendl etc.

I wanted to create a scenario which is a stretch but still not out of reach (for example 17 slams is completely out of reach). Just for the sake of playing the game, let's say Djokovic ends up with the following record:

12 slams
175 weeks at no 1 (5th best)
4 consecutive year end no 1s (2011-2014)
Only player to win all masters events
Master Titles leader
Career Slam
3-4 WTF
80% + W-L record
Leading H2H vs 3 biggest rivals - Fed/Nadal/Murray

Would Djoker be considered a Tier 1 great in this scenario? When people have their GOAT debates, would his name be in the pool?

if Sampras with 3 slams less can be in the same tier as Federer, why not Nadal, who is 3 slams lesser than Sampras? Sampras pretty much has nothing over Federer; Nadal has a few things over Sampras, and Sampras a few over Nadal, so they very well could be in tier II.

Tier I: Federer, Laver
Tier II: Sampras, Nadal, Borg <Djoker, if he meets your scenario>
Tier III: Lendl, et. al.

Hodgey20 01-31-2013 12:21 PM

Yes djoko could easily become a tier 1 if he continues his success he has had recently.

Prisoner of Birth 01-31-2013 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hodgey20 (Post 7182785)
Yes djoko could easily become a tier 1 if he continues his success he has had recently.

Recently, he's only won the Australian Open. If he keeps that up, he'll be lucky to get to 10 Grand Slams. To become a tier 1 GOAT, he'll need more than 12 Slams.

kragster 01-31-2013 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fed_rulz (Post 7182388)
if Sampras with 3 slams less can be in the same tier as Federer, why not Nadal, who is 3 slams lesser than Sampras? Sampras pretty much has nothing over Federer; Nadal has a few things over Sampras, and Sampras a few over Nadal, so they very well could be in tier II.

Tier I: Federer, Laver
Tier II: Sampras, Nadal, Borg <Djoker, if he meets your scenario>
Tier III: Lendl, et. al.

Fair enough although I would create it like this then:

Tier 0:Fed/Laver
Tier 1: Sampras
Tier 2: Borg/Nadal/ Djoker potential
Tier 3: Lendl et all/ Djoker likely

Phoenix1983 01-31-2013 01:22 PM

Tier 1 Open Era is Fed/Sampras/Borg/Nadal.

Djokovic is still some way short of the achievements of these guys, he could break into this group but I think he may fall a bit short. Let's not forget it was only in his annis mirabilis of 2011 that he won a slam outside of Melbourne.

veroniquem 01-31-2013 01:23 PM

Where Djokovic stands right now in open era:

TITLES:
1- Connors: 109
2- Lendl: 94
3- McEnroe: 77
4- Federer: 76
5- Borg/Sampras: 64
7- Vilas: 62
8- Nastase: 61
9- Agassi: 60
10- Laver: 54
11- Nadal: 50
12- Becker: 49
13- Muster: 44
14- Edberg: 42
15- Smith: 38
16- Djokovic: 35

SLAMS:
1- Federer: 17
2- Sampras: 14
3- Nadal/Borg: 11
5- Lendl: 8 ( + 11 finals)
6- Agassi/Connors: 8 (+ 7 finals)
8- Wilander/McEnroe: 7
10- Edberg: 6 (+ 5 finals)
11- Djokovic/Becker: 6 (+ 4 finals)

MASTERS:
1- Lendl: 22
2- Federer: 21 (+ 12 finals)
3- Nadal: 21 (+ 10 F)
4- McEnroe: 19
5- Connors: 17 (+ 12 F)
6- Agassi: 17 (+ 6 F)
7- Borg: 15
8- Djokovic: 13 (+ 10 F)
9- Becker: 13 (+ 8 F)

WTF:
1- Federer: 6T + 2F
2- Lendl: 5T + 4F
3- Sampras: 5T + 1F
4- Nastase: 4T + 1F
5- Becker: 3T + 5F
6- McEnroe: 3T + 1F
7- Borg: 2T + 2F
8- Hewitt: 2T + 1F
9- Djokovic: 2T

#1 RANKING:
1- Federer: 302 weeks
2- Sampras: 286
3- Lendl: 270
4- Connors: 268
5- McEnroe: 170
6- Borg: 109
7- Nadal: 102
8- Agassi: 101
9- Hewitt: 80
10- Edberg: 72
11- Djokovic: 66

Still a little work but getting there. Way ahead of Murray for instance :twisted:

Prisoner of Birth 01-31-2013 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by veroniquem (Post 7182919)
Where Djokovic stands right now in open era:

TITLES:
1- Connors: 109
2- Lendl: 94
3- McEnroe: 77
4- Federer: 76
5- Borg/Sampras: 64
7- Vilas: 62
8- Nastase: 61
9- Agassi: 60
10- Laver: 54
11- Nadal: 50
12- Becker: 49
13- Muster: 44
14- Edberg: 42
15- Smith: 38
16- Djokovic: 35

SLAMS:
1- Federer: 17
2- Sampras: 14
3- Nadal/Borg: 11
5- Lendl: 8 ( + 11 finals)
6- Agassi/Connors: 8 (+ 7 finals)
8- Wilander/McEnroe: 7
10- Edberg: 6 (+ 5 finals)
11- Djokovic/Becker: 6 (+ 4 finals)

MASTERS:
1- Lendl: 22
2- Federer: 21 (+ 12 finals)
3- Nadal: 21 (+ 10 F)
4- McEnroe: 19
5- Connors: 17 (+ 12 F)
6- Agassi: 17 (+ 6 F)
7- Borg: 15
8- Djokovic: 13 (+ 10 F)
9- Becker: 13 (+ 8 F)

WTF:
1- Federer: 6T + 2F
2- Lendl: 5T + 4F
3- Sampras: 5T + 1F
4- Nastase: 4T + 1F
5- Becker: 3T + 5F
6- McEnroe: 3T + 1F
7- Borg: 2T + 2F
8- Hewitt: 2T + 1F
9- Djokovic: 2T

#1 RANKING:
1- Federer: 302 weeks
2- Sampras: 286
3- Lendl: 270
4- Connors: 268
5- McEnroe: 170
6- Borg: 109
7- Nadal: 102
8- Agassi: 101
9- Hewitt: 80
10- Edberg: 72
11- Djokovic: 66

Still a little work but getting there. Way ahead of Murray for instance :twisted:

Federer is a beast.

veroniquem 01-31-2013 01:28 PM

He sure is: a record beast.

Prisoner of Birth 01-31-2013 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by veroniquem (Post 7182932)
He sure is: a record beast.

That's a way of putting it. Another way would be, "Title beast, Slam beast, Masters beast, WTF beast, and #1 beast."

veroniquem 01-31-2013 01:53 PM

The title beast is still Connors and the master beast is Lendl.

Sid_Vicious 01-31-2013 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by veroniquem (Post 7182983)
The title beast is still Connors and the master beast is Lendl.

Yeah, Federer is not going to beat Connors in titles, that's for sure


He can takeover Lendl though. So can Nadal.

Prisoner of Birth 01-31-2013 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by veroniquem (Post 7182983)
The title beast is still Connors and the master beast is Lendl.

There doesn't have to be just 1 beast per category. There's room for more :)

veroniquem 01-31-2013 02:25 PM

Good. The more beasts the merrier :)

Fiji 01-31-2013 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulorenzo (Post 7182346)
yes, that would be a pretty impressive resume. hypothetically tier 1 worthy.

he can potentially achieve more. with the way playing conditions have changed, and with federer and nadal's decline, he has the biggest chance of achieving a CYGS out of anyone on tour. he isnt a shoe in, but there is a real chance.

Djokovic would be considered the new Emerson because his achievements happened due to no competition from Olderer and Oldal.:oops:

Emerson won 12 slams but nobody considers him a Tier 1 great. It's not just about winning many slams but facing competition that is not unexisting/washed up/over the hill/etc.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:04 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2006 - Tennis Warehouse