Talk Tennis

Talk Tennis (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php)
-   Adult League & Tournament Talk (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/forumdisplay.php?f=35)
-   -   Question about Tennis rules (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=453450)

omega4 02-02-2013 08:13 AM

Question about Tennis rules
 
I didn't see a subforum on Rules, so if I'm posting this in the wrong subforum, I apologize.

My question is what is the protocol if Player A hits a ball (or serve) that is CLEARLY out but Player B does NOT call the ball (or serve) out and continues to play the point as normal.

Does Player A have the right to immediately stop play and call his own stroke (or serve) out?

If yes, is the point awarded to Player B or is a let declared and the point replayed?

There are lots of rules regarding when an out IS called but I couldn't find much guidance when an out is NOT called.

Thanks.

gameboy 02-02-2013 08:17 AM

The ball is in as long as your opponent plays it without calling it. It does not matter what you believe, as it is not your call.

If you stopped play on your opponent's non-call, you lose the point.

johndagolfer 02-02-2013 08:48 AM

You can only call your second serve out, not your first.

omega4 02-02-2013 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johndagolfer (Post 7186449)
You can only call your second serve out, not your first.

But according to Gameboy, Player A does not have the right to call his own strokes, or serves in this case.

If you are correct, then why can't a player also call his first serve out?

fleabitten 02-02-2013 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johndagolfer (Post 7186449)
You can only call your second serve out, not your first.

Does it actually say this in the rule book? Or is this just a clever way of saying you can give away a point if you want?

johndagolfer 02-02-2013 09:02 AM

I think it has to do with the fact that calling your second serve out will never benefit you. But, calling your first serve out, especially if your opponent hits a screaming winner, can benefit you greatly.

gameboy 02-02-2013 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleabitten (Post 7186477)
Or is this just a clever way of saying you can give away a point if you want?

A clever way of saying.

dizzlmcwizzl 02-02-2013 09:21 AM

The USTA encourages you to make correct calls and help your opponent to make correct calls if necessary. Generally you are responsible for calling all line calls and other infractions on your side of the net only.

If however, you have hit a ball and you see it clearly land out you are allowed to call it out as long as by doing so you immediately award the point to your opponent.

You cannot call your first serves out, because this does not immediately award the point to your opponent. If you were allowed to call your own first serves out then an unscrupulous person could take advantage of the situation and call his own serves out every time he sees his opponent rip a great return.

gmatheis 02-02-2013 09:48 AM

OK here's the deal


If you see your shot clearly out was clearly out you ARE supposed to call it, and yes you lose the point (your shot was out after all). This is in the rules.

The only exception to this is a first serve.
-If your opponent plays the first serve and his return is in you may not call it out.
- however, if his return is out (or into the net etc) you may call your first serve out and hit a second serve.
This is also in the rules

This has been discussed at length and backed up with proof from the code

SwankPeRFection 02-02-2013 09:59 AM

Hit your serves and if the guy's too blind to make the right call, play it. I've played with one guy who's so bad at calling the lines on serves that I think he actually does it to have an advantage. At first it used to bother me because I'd see it out and pretty much stop playing, but he'd hit his return like nothing happened and of course win the point since I wasn't ready for him to return a serve that was out.

After dealing with this crap and telling him about it, his reply was... well, you're serving really fast, so if it's that close, I'm clearly giving you the benefit of the doubt and saying that it's in. I told him, no, you're robbing me of points that I stop playing because I'm not a cheat and can clearly see the damn serve was out by an inch or so.

Bottom line, he wouldn't stop doing it, so now I play ALL service returns from him. I don't care if they're in or out, I play them and THEN listen to what his call was. This has minimized the chance of him getting free points. Unfortunately, it's also made me look like a cheat since onlookers see the serve was out and I still played the return. I usually yell out to them (well, not yell, but talk loudly enough for everyone to hear) "Yep, that serve was out, but it's not my call, it's HIS and HE has to deal with the ramifications of his inabilities." ;)

johndagolfer 02-02-2013 10:30 AM

Swank, I would say that you stopping playing is just as much at fault here. I've watched many a high school, college match and league match where they have played first serves that were out by an inch to 2 inches. There is no way to always be sure that an extremely fast hit ball has clipped the line from the servers perspective. The receiver should always give the benefit of the doubt.

This is why people time and time again say always play a return unless it's definitely called out.

OrangePower 02-02-2013 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gameboy (Post 7186406)
The ball is in as long as your opponent plays it without calling it. If you stopped play on your opponent's non-call, you lose the point.

This. It is the most concise and exact way to express the rule, and covers all situations. The Code has more explanation and elaboration, eg to clarify calls on 1st serve, and encourage players to concede a point if they see their own shot as out, but the above already covers it all.

Cindysphinx 02-02-2013 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangePower (Post 7186652)
This. It is the most concise and exact way to express the rule, and covers all situations. The Code has more explanation and elaboration, eg to clarify calls on 1st serve, and encourage players to concede a point if they see their own shot as out, but the above already covers it all.

Yes, but I will add one thing.

If your opponent doesn't see whether a ball was in or out and asks your opinion, you must give your honest opinion and your opponent must accept it.

There are some people who are unaware of this rule. When asked, they huff, "Well, it was your call to make! Don't ask me!" Better is "I saw it in/out/couldn't tell (if uncertain, it was in)."

omega4 02-02-2013 01:25 PM

Thanks for the additional clarification, Cindy.

So in a nutshell, the name of the game is never assume that a point is over until you, a line judge/referee, or your opponent calls a ball "out".

Seems simple enough. Just wanted to make sure that there wasn't some esoteric nuanced protocol involved with calling balls "out".

Govnor 02-02-2013 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection (Post 7186573)
Hit your serves and if the guy's too blind to make the right call, play it. I've played with one guy who's so bad at calling the lines on serves that I think he actually does it to have an advantage. At first it used to bother me because I'd see it out and pretty much stop playing, but he'd hit his return like nothing happened and of course win the point since I wasn't ready for him to return a serve that was out.

After dealing with this crap and telling him about it, his reply was... well, you're serving really fast, so if it's that close, I'm clearly giving you the benefit of the doubt and saying that it's in. I told him, no, you're robbing me of points that I stop playing because I'm not a cheat and can clearly see the damn serve was out by an inch or so.

Bottom line, he wouldn't stop doing it, so now I play ALL service returns from him. I don't care if they're in or out, I play them and THEN listen to what his call was. This has minimized the chance of him getting free points. Unfortunately, it's also made me look like a cheat since onlookers see the serve was out and I still played the return. I usually yell out to them (well, not yell, but talk loudly enough for everyone to hear) "Yep, that serve was out, but it's not my call, it's HIS and HE has to deal with the ramifications of his inabilities." ;)

Goodness me, is your father an Eagle?

SwankPeRFection 02-02-2013 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx (Post 7186842)
Yes, but I will add one thing.

If your opponent doesn't see whether a ball was in or out and asks your opinion, you must give your honest opinion and your opponent must accept it.

There are some people who are unaware of this rule. When asked, they huff, "Well, it was your call to make! Don't ask me!" Better is "I saw it in/out/couldn't tell (if uncertain, it was in)."

To go even further, league rules in my neck of the woods (and I'm sure it's everywhere) is that if you have to ask, your call is wrong and you lose a point. Along those same lines, if you're playing doubles of any kind and you and your partner disagree or have to ask each other what the call was after a call, you lose the point. Both of you must agree on the call.

There have been numerous times where I've had to correct a call my partner made. It sucks because you lose the point, but I feel it's wrong to cheat the other people. During times like that, it's amazing how about 85% of the opponents we play, after such a correction, they start paying much closer attention to their own calls and the calls that they'd normally call out that were really in by hair margins all of a sudden are in and a respectful "Good shot" call is made. Some players out there respect honesty and return it when they see that you're not there to cheat them. It's a two way street people.

I lost a doubles match one time because I corrected a call my partner made. I was right on the call, but it cost us the match since it was match point for our opponents. My partner got really argumentative after the match to the point where the opponents team and captain heard it. The guys on the other team told their captain what had happened and while I wasn't backing down during the argument and ultimately just told my partner off and called him a crap *** cheat if he was going to call things wrong when he's down match point, I ended up getting thanked by the other team for making the right call. Needless to say, fast forward a few days and I get a call from the other team to come and join their team the next season and also to play another league with their team during the current season that was starting for that. Again, legit people respect honesty, even more so when it's honesty in the midst of failure.

gmatheis 02-02-2013 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection (Post 7187202)
To go even further, league rules in my neck of the woods (and I'm sure it's everywhere) is that if you have to ask, your call is wrong and you lose a point. Along those same lines, if you're playing doubles of any kind and you and your partner disagree or have to ask each other what the call was after a call, you lose the point. Both of you must agree on the call.

There have been numerous times where I've had to correct a call my partner made. It sucks because you lose the point, but I feel it's wrong to cheat the other people. During times like that, it's amazing how about 85% of the opponents we play, after such a correction, they start paying much closer attention to their own calls and the calls that they'd normally call out that were really in by hair margins all of a sudden are in and a respectful "Good shot" call is made. Some players out there respect honesty and return it when they see that you're not there to cheat them. It's a two way street people.

I lost a doubles match one time because I corrected a call my partner made. I was right on the call, but it cost us the match since it was match point for our opponents. My partner got really argumentative after the match to the point where the opponents team and captain heard it. The guys on the other team told their captain what had happened and while I wasn't backing down during the argument and ultimately just told my partner off and called him a crap *** cheat if he was going to call things wrong when he's down match point, I ended up getting thanked by the other team for making the right call. Needless to say, fast forward a few days and I get a call from the other team to come and join their team the next season and also to play another league with their team during the current season that was starting for that. Again, legit people respect honesty, even more so when it's honesty in the midst of failure.

Ive had this experience as well ... most recently in the finals of a tournament. I inspected a ball mark that was so close to the line that it may or may not have just barely touched it ... I awarded the opponents the point. A little later I corrected an out call by my partner. From then on the match was nothing but fun with good honest calls on both sides. We won but more importantly we parted ways with our opponents as friends who all just had alot of fun.

Perhaps that's why I have only once run into an opponent that I felt was trying to hook me ... and this guys was notorious for it so that's just who he was.

omega4 02-02-2013 04:31 PM

It's great to see that golf doesn't have a monopoly on honesty and playing with honor.

It was really sad though to see those 12 year old girls question each others calls on just about every point during that recent USTA tournament that I watched. You'd hope that kids didn't learn to treat each other disrespectfully while playing tennis at such a young age.

Cindysphinx 02-02-2013 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection (Post 7187202)
To go even further, league rules in my neck of the woods (and I'm sure it's everywhere) is that if you have to ask, your call is wrong and you lose a point. Along those same lines, if you're playing doubles of any kind and you and your partner disagree or have to ask each other what the call was after a call, you lose the point. Both of you must agree on the call.

There have been numerous times where I've had to correct a call my partner made. It sucks because you lose the point, but I feel it's wrong to cheat the other people. During times like that, it's amazing how about 85% of the opponents we play, after such a correction, they start paying much closer attention to their own calls and the calls that they'd normally call out that were really in by hair margins all of a sudden are in and a respectful "Good shot" call is made. Some players out there respect honesty and return it when they see that you're not there to cheat them. It's a two way street people.

I lost a doubles match one time because I corrected a call my partner made. I was right on the call, but it cost us the match since it was match point for our opponents. My partner got really argumentative after the match to the point where the opponents team and captain heard it. The guys on the other team told their captain what had happened and while I wasn't backing down during the argument and ultimately just told my partner off and called him a crap *** cheat if he was going to call things wrong when he's down match point, I ended up getting thanked by the other team for making the right call. Needless to say, fast forward a few days and I get a call from the other team to come and join their team the next season and also to play another league with their team during the current season that was starting for that. Again, legit people respect honesty, even more so when it's honesty in the midst of failure.

Actually, there is no requirement that partners agree on a call. The rule is that they cannot disagree on a call.

If a player didn't get a good look at a ball and the partner is sure it was out, the out call is proper.

I agree that partners should correct errors their partners make, but they had better be in good position to be sure their partner got it wrong.

spot 02-03-2013 06:09 AM

Quote:

To go even further, league rules in my neck of the woods (and I'm sure it's everywhere) is that if you have to ask, your call is wrong and you lose a point
You have that rule completely wrong. The actual rule is that if you ask then the opponents are supposed to tell you what they saw. So if you aren't sure on a call, instead of conceding the point you really should be asking the opponent what they saw. You have to go along with whatever they say and even if they saw it out its likely they will say "I couldn't tell..." but its still worth it to ask them just in case you are facing someone honest who will concede the point.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:23 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2006 - Tennis Warehouse