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luvforty 02-04-2013 06:50 PM

racket throw distance and angle
 
so I was curious about what if i let go the racket.

full service motion, with some knee bend, but no jumping.

2 finger + thumb grip, letting go at the same release point as when I release the serve.

so the result is -

initial launch angle - about 60 degrees (90 degrees being straight up).
distance - 20 yards
racket weight - 12.1 oz
in the air, racket also flips head over butt.

thoughts?

NLBwell 02-04-2013 11:00 PM

Sounds like that would translate to a pretty decent serve with some topspin.

SystemicAnomaly 02-05-2013 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvforty (Post 7191935)
so I was curious about what if i let go the racket.

full service motion, with some knee bend, but no jumping.

2 finger + thumb grip, letting go at the same release point as when I release the serve...

in the air, racket also flips head over butt...

What do you mean by "same release point as when I release the serve"?

If your upward swing is correct you would release shortly after the big L (inverted L). At the big L, the arm would be nearly straight & vertical but the racket would still be about at a right angle to the arm (and somewhat parallel to the ground). The release would happen as the racket head moves upward from this position. The release point can vary on the upward swing to launch the racket at different angles. An early release during the upward swing would produce a very steep launch angle. A late release would result in a low launch angle.



Are you releasing without a forearm pronation? This is what I call a tomahawk or hatchet throw. This is the first racket throw that I do with my students. In this case the racket travels head over tail "on edge" -- as would happen when throwing an ax or a knife. We do a few throws at a 45 degree launch angle and then several throws at a 60 to 75 degree launch angle. The latter throws should promote a better racket head drop after the position.

Sampras 1st serve swing path:


After those throws, we then add forearm pronation. When released the racket moves thru the air a bit differently. It still tumbles head over tail but it also twists about its long axis (if we employ a full pronation prior to release). These throws are also executed a different launch angles. We then throw with various degree of pronation. We also employ various swing paths with these to simulate or approximate different types of spin serves.

luvforty 02-05-2013 05:15 AM

thanks SA for these pictures.

the release point for a real serve.... I meant that's the point when the racket is at full extension, as shown in your Sampras picture.

regarding pronation - the racket did rotate on it's long axis, but only did 2-3 revolutions in the air.... does that sound right? the head over butt tumble was much faster though, not sure, maybe 12 revolutions in the air.

does that sound right?

SystemicAnomaly 02-05-2013 05:57 AM

^ Yup, the twisting action (about the long axis) is not as fast as the head over tail tumbling action. However, in order to get a 60 degree launch angle, you would need to release a little bit before the contact point (full extension in the Sampras photo).

Kilco 02-05-2013 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SystemicAnomaly (Post 7192621)
^ Yup, the twisting action (about the long axis) is not as fast as the head over tail tumbling action. However, in order to get a 60 degree launch angle, you would need to release a little bit before the contact point (full extension in the Sampras photo).

Hey man, You posted in the thread I just bumped about the eye convergence thing...I posted there, can you tell me what Im doing wrong?? Thanks

LeeD 02-05-2013 01:48 PM

60 degrees is waaaay high an angle.
Closer to 35 is reality.
If you tossed the racket on edge and it landed before the back fence, you have a moderate serve speed.
Now if you released the racket with the face like hitting a flat serve, you have a great serve speed.

luvforty 02-05-2013 02:41 PM

35 sounds low?

the goal is not to toss the longest distance, it was trying to mimic a serve.

LeeD 02-05-2013 06:12 PM

No, nobody can swing upwards at 60 degrees, as the shoulder's are the pivot point, and your upper body would need to lean back farther than it's capable of.
Fastest part of your swingspeed at the rackethead should be at ball contact, slighly in front of your body.
If you aimed 60 degrees upwards, the fastest rackethead speed would be achieved behind you, 1 foot behind the baseline.

NLBwell 02-05-2013 06:23 PM

LeeD, you would be surprised at how far I can lean back to get a bad toss. 60 degrees wouldn't be that tough.

LeeD 02-05-2013 06:27 PM

Sure, I'm pretty sure I can throw a racket or ball close to 80 degrees upwards, as I've done hundreds of times in my youth playing littleleaque or 8th grade baseball. We used to throw the ball 120' up in the air from SS to 2nd base just for fun.
But can I actually do it with a service motion? I think not.
Gumby can, as can Elasto Man, but not me.

mikeespinmusic 02-05-2013 06:43 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_WMf8aOsS4 - If you want to see a good "reverse" racquet throw, check out this clip ;)

SystemicAnomaly 02-05-2013 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 7193976)
60 degrees is waaaay high an angle.
Closer to 35 is reality.
If you tossed the racket on edge and it landed before the back fence, you have a moderate serve speed.
Now if you released the racket with the face like hitting a flat serve, you have a great serve speed.

It really depends what part of the upward swing (path) you are talking about. As the racket head moves out of the "backscratch" loop it is moving nearly vertical (90 degrees). In looking at the Sampras swing path (in the photo above), we see that shortly after the loop we still see a very steep angle -- much greater than 60 degrees. For much of the upward swing the racket tip moves upward at an angle greater than 45 degrees -- it appears to be close to 60 degrees just after the big L position.

Very near contact, the racket path angle starts to diminish quite a bit -- nearly horizontal at contact. At Sampras' contact, the racket face appears to be a bit closed but it seems that the tip is still moving upward slightly. From this view of Sampras' swing path we cannot give the "throwing angle" a single number. The path angle changes quite a bit from the beginning of the upward to the contact point.

The OP is undoubtedly releasing the racket handle a bit before where the actual contact point would be. Note that Will Hamilton had a video on his FYB site where he suggested throwing the racket upward at a steep angle in order to facilitate a proper racket head drop (from the trophy). With his throws at low angles (much less than 45 degrees), very little racket head drop was employed. An good "racket throwing" angle would start off very steep and finish off shallow. Where you actually let go (along with other factors, perhaps) would determine the launch angle.

luvforty 02-06-2013 04:15 AM

at the time of letting go, the launch angle is the direction at which the racket's center of gravity is moving. (neck area)

so yeah, somewhere before the contact, 60 degrees.

LeeD 02-06-2013 01:40 PM

"somewhere" before contact, it could be towards behind you.....
At release of the racket, or end of acceleration, or call contact, that determines the angle measurement.


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