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-   -   Loose Strings and Overpowered Racquets making people quit too easily.. (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=453697)

mikeespinmusic 02-04-2013 10:07 PM

Loose Strings and Overpowered Racquets making people quit too easily..
 
Please note, I'm not a coach or a pro,

But I see this time and time again where I am. Someone comes in to play, "Hi I'm__________ and I'm new and want to get into tennis for some fun and fitness... "

-they're welcomed to a friendly group
-they start to play
-They launch everything out the court on are bascially forced to just push everything...
-They're too embarrassed to borrow someone elses "properly strung" racquet
- They're too embarrased to keep playing or take up group coaching because of it (or sometimes financial reasons)

- Or they get injured because of their light, stiff racquet they got from their latest local store catologue...

-And the final result is that they never come back
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

These power technologies are ruining the game, average mary and joe don't want to spend money on restrings and super advanced coaching to use their latest poly setup. - They just want to play and have fun.

I hope one day the companies will realise this and start to make racquets lower powered and more flexible again -- Then people won't have to contantly restring with a poly just to stay in the game...

Any more thoughts?

omega4 02-04-2013 11:00 PM

This phenomenon isn't endemic to tennis.

I see it in golf all the time. Beginners show up at a driving range or golf course with golf clubs that they bought off the shelf at a Dicks Sporting Goods or Golf Galaxy but haven't been properly fitted for.

The shafts might be too stiff or flexible, the lie angles might be too upright or flat, the grip size might be too big or small, or the swingweight might be totally off, etc.

In the end, they can't hit a little golf ball that's just sitting their on the ground or on a tee for the life of them. They get frustrated. They decide to never spend 4 to 5 hours on a round of golf ever again.

Golf, and tennis, need to do a better job as a whole educating beginners that their sports are NOT as simple as picking up a generic basketball or football and going out to play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeespinmusic (Post 7192251)
Please note, I'm not a coach or a pro,

But I see this time and time again where I am. Someone comes in to play, "Hi I'm__________ and I'm new and want to get into tennis for some fun and fitness... "

-they're welcomed to a friendly group
-they start to play
-They launch everything out the court on are bascially forced to just push everything...
-They're too embarrassed to borrow someone elses "properly strung" racquet
- They're too embarrased to keep playing or take up group coaching because of it (or sometimes financial reasons)

- Or they get injured because of their light, stiff racquet they got from their latest local store catologue...

-And the final result is that they never come back
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

These power technologies are ruining the game, average mary and joe don't want to spend money on restrings and super advanced coaching to use their latest poly setup. - They just want to play and have fun.

I hope one day the companies will realise this and start to make racquets lower powered and more flexible again -- Then people won't have to contantly restring with a poly just to stay in the game...

Any more thoughts?


tata 02-05-2013 02:13 AM

That's the thing about tennis. It's really hard to play properly in a social/casual setting where you can just 'plug and play'. There is so much on technique and preparation that it's just too much to a new comer. Only those who truly want to learn and play will dedicate themselves. Those guys probably find their inspiration from watching the Big 4.

T-ennis 888 02-05-2013 04:55 AM

Luckily the coach at my club is knowledgeable about issues such as overpowered sticks coupled to loose strings leading to a lack of control and injuries. I usually point such individuals (as you have described) in the direction of the coach with something along the lines of :

"If you don't mind me saying, the strings you are using have probably seen better days. Why don't you have a little word with our club coach over remedying this as he's knowledgeable in such matters and a very approachable chap. It will probably help you to improve as a player too."

chollyred 02-05-2013 05:11 AM

I think one of the big detractors is the ability to find people of similar to slightly better skill levels to play together. Once people start to play better, they try to avoid playing with beginners. Everybody wants to play up. Not down.

The Round Robin that Spot runs is a great avenue/format for people to get started. Very social (beer and snacks), ladder type of event. Start low and work your way up. As you get better, you play with better partners and play against better people. Play badly, and you move down to play with lower skilled players. The lower level players also get to know some of the better players on a personal level and become more enticed to become better. Great format that usually has a waiting list to play. The tennis center where they play has also started running simultaneous clinics for the beginner to intermediate levels. So if you can't get into the draw, you can still participate in the evening. Lots of fun

I wish my local tennis center ran events like this.

TimothyO 02-05-2013 05:16 AM

I see this all of the time, especially in team practice.

Typically it's a fellow rec player who had their frame strung last year or maybe only when they purchased their frame a few years ago (yes, some players never have their frame restrung!)

Pro tells them to how to take a full swing. Being rec players, we don't have a pro's form. So the ball goes long or all over the place.

The rec player then ends up going one of three ways:

1. QUIT IN FRUSTRATION: I nearly did this when I first started playing a couple of years ago. I bought the lightest, most powerful noob frame I could fine and was told by a tennis shop guy to get it strung with a powerful, thin multi that soon went all springy in the Atlanta heat. I couldn't figure out why the ball didn't go where I was trying to aim or why it seemed to hit the back fence with even a slow stroke, forget a full stroke like teaching pros told me to do. It was a wild rocket launcher.

2. ADOPT BADMINTON STROKE: this is the most common result, especially for the ladies. The frame is so powerful they adapt their stroke to the frame's performance. They never develop proper form because the frame PUNISHES the trial and error of stroke development with terrible shots. Sure, a player with great form can take a powerful frame and keep their shots in. But we noob rec players don't have perfect form so that extra power is tough to control. This also results in lots of TE since poor form can be as bad as stiff frames and strings for your arm. Guys who stick with these frames tend to simply spend their rec career hitting wildly, pleased with the few spectacular, powerful shots that actually land in (my wife and her friends constantly complain about these guys in mixed doubles).

3. CHANGE: this is really hard for the average rec player because the vast, vast majority never come to a place like TT for advice or have access to someone who cares about their hardware choice. I'm a tech geek and love tennis tech and can enjoy the interaction between form and function (I was also an industrial design major in college so enjoy problem solving too). It was easy and natural for me to change but that process was time consuming and expensive (I enjoyed it anyway but most people have no interest in this stuff...we TT members are the exception to the rule).

One local big box authority on sports store actually told its tennis staff to NOT spend time figuring out what frame fits a player best. Just make the sale as quick as possible and then restock the shelves. And one of their tennis dept. employees asked me what the numbers (eg 17g) meant on string packages...and he was advising new players on frame and string choice.

omega4 02-05-2013 05:18 AM

What part of the country does Spot run this Round Robin of his? It sounds like a lot of fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chollyred (Post 7192542)
I think one of the big detractors is the ability to find people of similar to slightly better skill levels to play together. Once people start to play better, they try to avoid playing with beginners. Everybody wants to play up. Not down.

The Round Robin that Spot runs is a great avenue/format for people to get started. Very social (beer and snacks), ladder type of event. Start low and work your way up. As you get better, you play with better partners and play against better people. Play badly, and you move down to play with lower skilled players. The lower level players also get to know some of the better players on a personal level and become more enticed to become better. Great format that usually has a waiting list to play. The tennis center where they play has also started running simultaneous clinics for the beginner to intermediate levels. So if you can't get into the draw, you can still participate in the evening. Lots of fun

I wish my local tennis center ran events like this.


omega4 02-05-2013 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimothyO (Post 7192552)
One local big box authority on sports store actually told its tennis staff to NOT spend time figuring out what frame fits a player best. Just make the sale as quick as possible and then restock the shelves. And one of their tennis dept. employees asked me what the numbers (eg 17g) meant on string packages...and he was advising new players on frame and string choice.

Well, to be fair, I think a consumer has already "lost" if he has to rely on a big box store employee on advice as to what to purchase.

I think asking the assistance of most minimum-wage employees at big box stores will generally lead to disaster. While there are exceptions to the rule, they're mostly that - just exceptions.

dman72 02-05-2013 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omega4 (Post 7192566)
Well, to be fair, I think a consumer has already "lost" if he has to rely on a big box store employee on advice as to what to purchase.

I think asking the assistance of most minimum-wage employees at big box stores will generally lead to disaster. While there are exceptions to the rule, they're mostly that - just exceptions.



I ****ed off a guy working at the local sports authority...there was a guy looking at the (pathetic) selection of frames, and the guy at the store gave him the old "buy the lightest frame" BS.

As I was browsing, the customer asked me if I played tennis, and then asked me what I thought. I told him to do the exact opposite of what the store employee told him. The most "player" frame they had was a microgel radical mp..I told him as a beginner the head extreme pro that is also a decent choice, but better yet, go to tennis warehouse or their competitor on the East Coast (frames arrive in a day or 2, only reason I often go there over TW) and get an older closeout frame in the "tweener" category. I named a few frames for him that I knew of that were under $80 (Head LM 4 Prince 03 shark, etc) that SA would charge $90+ for.

He thanked me and left.

I don't think anyone short of a 70 year old needs the power of a 125+ inch granny stick, although I do know some decent players who are able to harness their power effectively, I think it's a poor place to start. If you can learn how to hit a topspin forehand and then choose to try to take advantage of some $200 granny stick, whatever works for you.

anubis 02-05-2013 06:51 AM

This is one of the reasons that I like USTA so much: I get to play with people of similar skill so that I'm not being double bageled every time I play, nor am I double bageling anyone that I play. It's competitive enough to keep me wanting more, yet I'm not being absolutely destroyed so that I don't even want to show my face at the next match.

Now figuring out what kind of equipment one should use is a completely different story... one that USTA really can't speak properly on since racquet tech changes so frequently.

chollyred 02-05-2013 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omega4 (Post 7192560)
What part of the country does Spot run this Round Robin of his? It sounds like a lot of fun.

Here in Atlanta at DeKalb Tennis Center. Since you're in the Area, here's the link for info, sign up, etc. They stopped playing in November, but should be ready to start back up soon. I believe you can get on a mailing list.

http://www.dekalbtennis.com/

What part of town are you in? I'm out east between Conyers and Covington.

Dimcorner 02-05-2013 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimothyO (Post 7192552)

2. ADOPT BADMINTON STROKE: this is the most common result, especially for the ladies. The frame is so powerful they adapt their stroke to the frame's performance. They never develop proper form because the frame PUNISHES the trial and error of stroke development with terrible shots. Sure, a player with great form can take a powerful frame and keep their shots in. But we noob rec players don't have perfect form so that extra power is tough to control. This also results in lots of TE since poor form can be as bad as stiff frames and strings for your arm. Guys who stick with these frames tend to simply spend their rec career hitting wildly, pleased with the few spectacular, powerful shots that actually land in (my wife and her friends constantly complain about these guys in mixed doubles).

That depends on the level of badminton.

Me and my wife are both very heavy badminton players (she went to US Jr Nationals) and right of the bat she know she can't use badminton style swings because it would rip her wrist apart (she tried a few shots, hurt like hell, she stopped). We both have a similar issues that we can't hit a forehand but we have serves and overheads that are better than our beginner level (I have been playing for about 8 months, she has played about 1 month). Strange thing is that I have a better OHBH than a forehand :\

omega4 02-05-2013 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chollyred (Post 7192767)
Here in Atlanta at DeKalb Tennis Center. Since you're in the Area, here's the link for info, sign up, etc. They stopped playing in November, but should be ready to start back up soon. I believe you can get on a mailing list.

http://www.dekalbtennis.com/

What part of town are you in? I'm out east between Conyers and Covington.

Hi chollyred,
Thank you for the link and information. I appreciate it.

I just moved to Atlanta about 2.5 weeks ago. I'm just north of Buckhead near Brookhaven (north Atlanta city) until I got here. Still learning my way around Atlanta and I still have to Google Maps just about every place around here.

I didn't realize that Atlanta was such a tennis friendly town (I think there are 2 tennis leagues here: ATLA and USTA?). That's why I decided to pick up tennis again.

That and I've found it harder as I've gotten older to devote 4+ hours playing golf on the weekends. It's much simpler to spend 2 hours or so playing tennis instead.

I'm looking forward to meeting others in Atlanta while having fun playing some quality tennis.

TennisCJC 02-05-2013 12:34 PM

yes, average Joe/Suzy walks into store and picks up the largest head size and lightest racket thinking they just got some advantage. Its been sitting in the store strung with cheapest syn gut available for months. It like is an uncontrollable boozaka unless they re-string it at 75 lbs to try to control it.

I hate that manufacturers seem to be also going lower and lower in stock SW. Why does the wilson blx prostaff 95 have a stock SW of 305? SW around 320-330 would have been more appropriate. Same with some recent dunlops why did bio 300's go under 310 in stock SW. The new F3.0 and M3.0 went back up.

I think the new dunlop m3.0 has good specs for a beginner and can be used all the way up to pro level if you customize it a bit - 11 oz, 318 SW, flex 66, 16x19 pattern, 2HL (I would prefer 4 HL), and 98" head. Even an early teen could handle this racket quite comfortably.

TennisCJC 02-05-2013 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omega4 (Post 7192993)
Hi chollyred,
Thank you for the link and information. I appreciate it.

I just moved to Atlanta about 2.5 weeks ago. I'm just north of Buckhead near Brookhaven (north Atlanta city) until I got here. Still learning my way around Atlanta and I still have to Google Maps just about every place around here.

I didn't realize that Atlanta was such a tennis friendly town (I think there are 2 tennis leagues here: ATLA and USTA?). That's why I decided to pick up tennis again.

That and I've found it harder as I've gotten older to devote 4+ hours playing golf on the weekends. It's much simpler to spend 2 hours or so playing tennis instead.

I'm looking forward to meeting others in Atlanta while having fun playing some quality tennis.

ALTA is huge in Atlanta about 80,000+ members. In your area, try Bitsy Grant Tennis Center - they also run round robins 24 courts about 1/2 clay and 1/2 hard. Also, Chastain Park has about 20+ hardcourts, and Blackburn Tennis Center has about 20+ hardcourts. These are all 10 minutes from your house and may be able to hook you up with teams. All will have USTA and ALTA teams. All are public facilities in very nice shape and very low court fees. Bitsy Grant is an institution named after the Atlantan player Bitsy Grant who played in the 30s?. It is cool - picture of old players in blacknWhite in the clubhouse, recently remodeled, a covered veranda with rocking chairs so you can watch the clay matches, lockers/showers, and a memorial wall with brass plagues for all the old guys/gals no longer with us. Coach Bobby Dodd (GaTech football) and journalist Atlanta Journal/author Lewis Grizzard are on the memorial wall and a slew of others.


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