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10isfreak 02-06-2013 06:38 AM

Eastern forehand players
 
I am puzzled as to whether or not amateurs can generate some serious amount of top spin using some variation of the eastern forehand grip and if someone had video footage to show what it looks like.

Of course, we do have a professional instance of what it can be turned into (Federer), but this pro also uses many micro-movements that we could only hope to see amateurs replicate entirely. I'd just like to see amateurs hitting with that grip.

Relinquis 02-06-2013 11:00 AM

not that many people i know hit with an eastern and can hit with topspin. I feel like a minority.

i dont have any video though. perhaps there is video of college level players who have this grip/stroke combo.

dman72 02-06-2013 11:33 AM

Look at a video of a Sampras running forehand..he use an over the head finish a la Nadal using an Eastern Forehand grip. To generate "serious" topspin with an Eastern forehand grip, you need to have an exaggerated windsheild wiper motion.

Generating topspin comes more naturally as you move towards Western grips. Driving the ball flat is easier with an Eastern. You can do the inverse with either grip, but it's a question of what comes easier.

The Meat 02-06-2013 11:47 AM

I'll try taping my friend and myself hitting this week, he hits a very hard flat forehand and I hit with a lot of topspin.

rkelley 02-06-2013 11:55 AM

My son hits with an E fh and he can kick balls up to my head and to the side at times. His form is not like Fed's. His prep has a good loop, not too big, but not Fed like either. The head drops below the ball at the bottom of the loop. He keeps his elbow more into his body as he swings to contact and I think his contact point is therefore a bit closer to the body than you might think (hard to tell from across the net). His arm is bent at contact. He gets a good relative motion up and across the ball. Both spin and pace are good, and he can flatten it out and rip through it when he wants. He probably should get the elbow a bit more away from his body, but I've noticed a lot the high school kids on his team have that similar elbow into the body form.

I don't know if his grip has cheated much towards a SW - it's possible.

Anyways, yes it can be done and you don't have to be Roger Federer to do it.

10isfreak 02-06-2013 12:20 PM

Does Haas play with some variation of the E fh too? He seems to present a slightly different style than Federer, but his hand is set in a rather conservative way around the handle.

And thanks for the up coming video... I'd like to see how you deal with it.

isilra 02-06-2013 01:47 PM

I prefer not to hit with a lot of topspin but i CAN generate enormous amount of topspin with an eastern forehand if i want. Sometimes i'm even surprised how i do that but sometimes the ball jumps over the head of my friend and he just can't hit it. The reason i don't use it is, i need to hit with a lot of power to make it an effective weapon against better players but i'm not ready yet for it.

I will try to explain my forehand. First of all, you and your wrist need to be loose, otherwise you loose all the effect. I push the racquet with my left hand in a natural position and i pronate my forearm in a way that the racquet face shows the ground and the tip is towards somewhere between net and side fence. I let the gravity make the drop and when the racquet drops, i supinate my forearm back so the racquet goes back. The supination is started by the shoulder turn mostly, so it is a natural motion. I hit through the ball but i get a little under the ball so it gives you the net clearance. When i make the contact, i pronate my forearm again to give some extra spin to the ball and finish the stroke in a ww follow through.

So i don't listen to anybody who says it's impossible to hit heavy topspin with an eastern forehand. If you use it in a traditional way, yes it is very hard but with some practice, you can learn the pronation-supination-pronation route. I used to have a semi western forehand but i like hitting topspin with a relatively flat trajectory, so turned to an eastern forehand.

TheCheese 02-06-2013 01:52 PM

I do it using an extreme eastern grip (although you can do it all the way up to a continental grip, really, you just get less spin potential). It looks a lot like the Fed/Nadal technique, just a lot less explosive than the actual pros obviously.

I'd say I can probably hit at least as much spin as most guys playing with full western grips, but if I choose I can also drive the ball much more while maintaining good margin.

FrisbeeFool 02-06-2013 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10isfreak (Post 7195338)
I am puzzled as to whether or not amateurs can generate some serious amount of top spin using some variation of the eastern forehand grip and if someone had video footage to show what it looks like.

Of course, we do have a professional instance of what it can be turned into (Federer), but this pro also uses many micro-movements that we could only hope to see amateurs replicate entirely. I'd just like to see amateurs hitting with that grip.

What kind of experience do you have with the game of tennis??? For a period of time, the eastern grip was more popular on the forehand than the semi-western. Countless players used it to hit topspin.

If you play with older players who were taught to hit their forehands before the the semi-western grip was en vogue, you will see eastern and even continental forehands.

Some younger players are using eastern grips as well, although they are not as common as the semiwestern. You achieve topspin with an eastern grip the same way you would, if you use a semi-western, you get your racket below the ball, and hit through the ball, making sure you have a full followthrough.

LeeD 02-06-2013 02:58 PM

My question is whether or not rec players and amateurs can generate moderate topspin without losing ball speed so their shots are ineffective and easy to get to.

TheCheese 02-06-2013 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 7196538)
My question is whether or not rec players and amateurs can generate moderate topspin without losing ball speed so their shots are ineffective and easy to get to.

Yes, but "rec players" is a very wide range. For the average 3.5, maybe not.

LeeD 02-06-2013 03:05 PM

And for injured old farts like myself, not.
I can hit a heavy RPM looper once in a while for effect (change of ball), but overall, hitting modern topspin strokes every ball is a losing proposition for my body. Just takes too many strokes to win a point.
Better to slice into a corner repeatedly, and when opponent get's lazy, THEN hit the heavy topspin short angle shot.

FrisbeeFool 02-06-2013 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 7196548)
And for injured old farts like myself, not.
I can hit a heavy RPM looper once in a while for effect (change of ball), but overall, hitting modern topspin strokes every ball is a losing proposition for my body. Just takes too many strokes to win a point.
Better to slice into a corner repeatedly, and when opponent get's lazy, THEN hit the heavy topspin short angle shot.

If you want more topspin, but don't want to change your grip, focus on getting below the ball more, when you want a loopier shot. You will see players like Andy Murray do this all the time during rallies on the pro-tour. On his flat forehands he doesn't get below the ball as much. A shot he loves to hit is the cross-court roller. On this shot he really gets below the ball dramatically, it helps him hit that loopier shot that will dip more.

LeeD 02-06-2013 03:15 PM

Problem is, I hit forehands with a strong SW, almost full W, and heavy top is the normal spin I hit.
Better than a SW or E for me, since those grips, I miss long AND short.

FrisbeeFool 02-06-2013 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 7196573)
Problem is, I hit forehands with a strong SW, almost full W, and heavy top is the normal spin I hit.
Better than a SW or E for me, since those grips, I miss long AND short.

Ok, I thought in your previous post you said, topspin was too hard on your body. Now you're saying you hit heavy top. If you're using the right stroke mechanics it shouldn't be too hard on your body. You just drop your racket below the ball, get under it, and hit through the ball with a full relaxed follow-through.

Do you have injury issues? With sound mechanics, topspin groundies shouldn't be putting a lot of ware and tear on your body.

DropShotArtist 02-06-2013 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isilra (Post 7196381)
I prefer not to hit with a lot of topspin but i CAN generate enormous amount of topspin with an eastern forehand if i want. Sometimes i'm even surprised how i do that but sometimes the ball jumps over the head of my friend and he just can't hit it. The reason i don't use it is, i need to hit with a lot of power to make it an effective weapon against better players but i'm not ready yet for it.

I will try to explain my forehand. First of all, you and your wrist need to be loose, otherwise you loose all the effect. I push the racquet with my left hand in a natural position and i pronate my forearm in a way that the racquet face shows the ground and the tip is towards somewhere between net and side fence. I let the gravity make the drop and when the racquet drops, i supinate my forearm back so the racquet goes back. The supination is started by the shoulder turn mostly, so it is a natural motion. I hit through the ball but i get a little under the ball so it gives you the net clearance. When i make the contact, i pronate my forearm again to give some extra spin to the ball and finish the stroke in a ww follow through.

So i don't listen to anybody who says it's impossible to hit heavy topspin with an eastern forehand. If you use it in a traditional way, yes it is very hard but with some practice, you can learn the pronation-supination-pronation route. I used to have a semi western forehand but i like hitting topspin with a relatively flat trajectory, so turned to an eastern forehand.

Sounds like Federer's forehand.

aimr75 02-06-2013 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10isfreak (Post 7195338)
I am puzzled as to whether or not amateurs can generate some serious amount of top spin using some variation of the eastern forehand grip and if someone had video footage to show what it looks like.

Of course, we do have a professional instance of what it can be turned into (Federer), but this pro also uses many micro-movements that we could only hope to see amateurs replicate entirely. I'd just like to see amateurs hitting with that grip.

I use an eastern,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5CrX6q-JEc

Only some casual hitting on a wet surface, so not the best indicator for what youre looking for i guess

Cheetah 02-06-2013 07:17 PM

^^ i remember that vid. yea.. very nice.

TheCheese 02-06-2013 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aimr75 (Post 7196641)
I use an eastern,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5CrX6q-JEc

Only some casual hitting on a wet surface, so not the best indicator for what youre looking for i guess

Beautiful backhand.

rkelley 02-06-2013 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkelley (Post 7195999)
My son hits with an E fh and he can kick balls up to my head and to the side at times. His form is not like Fed's. His prep has a good loop, not too big, but not Fed like either. The head drops below the ball at the bottom of the loop. He keeps his elbow more into his body as he swings to contact and I think his contact point is therefore a bit closer to the body than you might think (hard to tell from across the net). His arm is bent at contact. He gets a good relative motion up and across the ball. Both spin and pace are good, and he can flatten it out and rip through it when he wants. He probably should get the elbow a bit more away from his body, but I've noticed a lot the high school kids on his team have that similar elbow into the body form.

I don't know if his grip has cheated much towards a SW - it's possible.

Anyways, yes it can be done and you don't have to be Roger Federer to do it.

I asked him tonight - Yep, still Eastern.


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