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-   -   Forehand: question on technique. (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=454230)

MikeHitsHard93 02-09-2013 08:51 AM

Forehand: question on technique.
 
How much of your whole body is ideal to put into the shot? I have recently switched to a more modern forehand with ww and I spring through it. However, sometimes just using mostly arm and upper body works much better and with less effort.

sureshs 02-09-2013 09:12 AM

Body weight behind the shot is not that important in modern strokes due to advances in racket technology

MikeHitsHard93 02-09-2013 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7202201)
Body weight behind the shot is not that important in modern strokes due to advances in racket technology

Yes I've been wondering this but I didn't want to start getting lazy :) it's just so much easier to hit with my arm rather than launch myself into the shot and get the same output.

Topspin Shot 02-09-2013 10:04 AM

Be careful about that body weight thing. Technically, body weight isn't as important becasue the rackets are more powerful. When you're pressed for time, you can get away with purely open stance, no weight transfer, etc. That ability to hit off balance has led to the grueling rally contests you see on tour today. But, that is not an excuse to be lazy. When the pros have time, they step into their shots and get their weight into it. If you get a hard ball into a corner, you can get it back without a weight transfer. But, if you get a soft sitter, and you don't transfer your weight, you'll put it into the bottom of the net. Watch how the pros step up on sitters and how they get their weight into it.

SparkNotes version: It is possible to hit off balance. That doesn't mean it is acceptable. Step into as many shots as you can.

WildVolley 02-09-2013 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7202201)
Body weight behind the shot is not that important in modern strokes due to advances in racket technology

I disagree with this.

Getting your weight behind the shot can still allow you to hit a hard penetrating shot. I'm convinced this is one of the reasons that Berdych, for example, can sometimes hit people off the court. He tends to get his body into the shot more than some other players who are hitting more spin.

J011yroger 02-09-2013 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeHitsHard93 (Post 7202276)
Yes I've been wondering this but I didn't want to start getting lazy :) it's just so much easier to hit with my arm rather than launch myself into the shot and get the same output.

I hesitate to post actual advise in the presence of of the ensuing storm of idiocy which will likely follow your post, and had half a mind to just message you privately, but I strongly recommend you video yourself hitting as what you think is happening is not what is actually happening.

If you get the same output arming the ball as you do when you launch your body into the shot then you are doing something very, very wrong.

Usually when this happens it is because the person launching into the shot is flying open with their body too soon, leaving the arm behind; then after all of the energy from their body is already expended, they simply arm the ball as per usual.

If lower body, and torso are out of synch with your arm and racquet, then any energy from them is completely wasted.

It would be the same as arming the ball, or dropping down and doing a push-up before getting back up and arming the ball.

J

rkelley 02-09-2013 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J011yroger (Post 7202431)
I hesitate to post actual advise in the presence of of the ensuing storm of idiocy which will likely follow your post, and had half a mind to just message you privately, but I strongly recommend you video yourself hitting as what you think is happening is not what is actually happening.

If you get the same output arming the ball as you do when you launch your body into the shot then you are doing something very, very wrong.

Usually when this happens it is because the person launching into the shot is flying open with their body too soon, leaving the arm behind; then after all of the energy from their body is already expended, they simply arm the ball as per usual.

If lower body, and torso are out of synch with your arm and racquet, then any energy from them is completely wasted.

It would be the same as arming the ball, or dropping down and doing a push-up before getting back up and arming the ball.

J

I'm in agreement with this given that none of us have seen your stroke. The part about "spring through it" doesn't sound good generally.

If you're switching to a modern forehand then you should not be arming the ball. With all respect to others who have posted, your weight is most definitely behind the stroke, but just in a different way (given that I'm not sure how you hit before).

There are a billion threads on this, but basically you want generally set-up semi-open. You don't have to, but this should be your basic set-up position. You want your weight on your back/outside foot mostly. That back/outside leg supports your shot and is an important part of driving your hips around. The power of the kinetic chain starts there.

You don't have to launch your body into every shot, you just want to push off that back/outside leg. Even if you are coming off the ground, the your coming off that back leg.

With the modern fh it's all about rotation of the core, not linear movements. The back/outside leg is the preferred rotation center.

MikeHitsHard93 02-09-2013 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J011yroger (Post 7202431)
I hesitate to post actual advise in the presence of of the ensuing storm of idiocy which will likely follow your post, and had half a mind to just message you privately, but I strongly recommend you video yourself hitting as what you think is happening is not what is actually happening.

If you get the same output arming the ball as you do when you launch your body into the shot then you are doing something very, very wrong.

Usually when this happens it is because the person launching into the shot is flying open with their body too soon, leaving the arm behind; then after all of the energy from their body is already expended, they simply arm the ball as per usual.

If lower body, and torso are out of synch with your arm and racquet, then any energy from them is completely wasted.

It would be the same as arming the ball, or dropping down and doing a push-up before getting back up and arming the ball.

J

I have yet to set up a video recording solely on the fact that I live in Michigan and the public nets get taken down in the winter. Next time I go to the MSU courts I will video myself and post here.

I have the feeling that I'm doing exactly what you're saying. All my energy is being wasted.

MikeHitsHard93 02-09-2013 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkelley (Post 7202453)
I'm in agreement with this given that none of us have seen your stroke. The part about "spring through it" doesn't sound good generally.

If you're switching to a modern forehand then you should not be arming the ball. With all respect to others who have posted, your weight is most definitely behind the stroke, but just in a different way (given that I'm not sure how you hit before).

There are a billion threads on this, but basically you want generally set-up semi-open. You don't have to, but this should be your basic set-up position. You want your weight on your back/outside foot mostly. That back/outside leg supports your shot and is an important part of driving your hips around. The power of the kinetic chain starts there.

You don't have to launch your body into every shot, you just want to push off that back/outside leg. Even if you are coming off the ground, the your coming off that back leg.

With the modern fh it's all about rotation of the core, not linear movements. The back/outside leg is the preferred rotation center.

I usually hit a semi open stance when I arm the ball and a full open stance when I "explode" through the ball. At least, I try to :) I believe video recording myself will open my eyes a lot.

sureshs 02-09-2013 12:32 PM

Rotation is important, not so much launching into the ball and transferring weight forward. This is due to the modern rackets.

tennis_pr0 02-09-2013 12:37 PM

To answer your question simply, weight transfer, whether hitting in closed, neutral or open is important for generating pace, spin and depth. Even if you are hitting from an open stance, there should still be a complete weight transfer, starting with the legs and ending with the shoulder rotating through the ball. Sure, you don't always have time to set your feet and do this and with a very live arm can still generate a lot of racquet head speed and hit a great shot without transferring your weight, but to say that transferring your weight into the shot is not that important is a very inaccurate statement.

chico9166 02-09-2013 01:11 PM

"Weight transfer" in the conventional sense is not really overly important. Linking the rotation is, however. In fact, an emphasis on stepping in, or weight transfer can impede properly timed rotation.

Cheetah 02-09-2013 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chico9166 (Post 7202620)
"Weight transfer" in the conventional sense is not really overly important. Linking the rotation is, however. In fact, an emphasis on stepping in, or weight transfer can impede properly timed rotation.

there is no 'conventional sense'. weight transfer is weight transfer. hitting a good shot involves weight transfer. guys with big shots get their weight into the ball. just because they are rotating doesn't mean weight isn't going through the ball. it's not as obvious to the uninformed viewer because of the open stance/rotation/ww etc as it was in the old days but it's still there. You don't need to 'step in' to get all your weight into the ball. Angular momentum.

i can assure you that djoko here is getting his weight into the ball
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36v_W...360449978&t=4s

10isfreak 02-09-2013 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeHitsHard93 (Post 7202158)
How much of your whole body is ideal to put into the shot? I have recently switched to a more modern forehand with ww and I spring through it. However, sometimes just using mostly arm and upper body works much better and with less effort.

The wording is a little vague here and it's easy for people to get confused when performing a forehand stroke. To be really clear, we should be talking about sequences of movement and an ideal stroke involves your legs, your hips and your spine: leg extension, hip extension, hip and spine rotation should all contribute to accelerating your arm toward the ball.

Of course, if you're hitting a super low ball or are off balance, you shouldn't attempt to hit the ideal shot... you hit what your footwork allows to hit. You then think of what you can "waste" or let go in your stroke when you can't achieve the perfect movement -- that's how we adapt a forehand.

Otherwise, you shouldn't feel like you're muscling the ball or like only your upper body is involved... it's everything whenever you have space and time.

chico9166 02-09-2013 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheetah (Post 7202679)
there is no 'conventional sense'. weight transfer is weight transfer. hitting a good shot involves weight transfer. guys with big shots get their weight into the ball. just because they are rotating doesn't mean weight isn't going through the ball. it's not as obvious to the uninformed viewer because of the open stance/rotation/ww etc as it was in the old days but it's still there. You don't need to 'step in' to get all your weight into the ball. Angular momentum.

i can assure you that djoko here is getting his weight into the ball
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36v_W...360449978&t=4s

First of all, weight transfer is a bit nebulous. However, CONVENTIONAL interpretatation usually entails/involves linear transfers in a forward sense. (I know this, because I'm on the court everyday)

And yeah, and I sort a know what angular momentum is, but thanks. I'll ask you this, because you seem to be the self appointed expert here, but do you know how linear and angular momentum work in conjunction..just in a broad sense?

Cheetah 02-09-2013 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chico9166 (Post 7202703)
First of all, weight transfer is a bit nebulous. However, CONVENTIONAL interpretatation usually entails/involves linear transfers in a forward sense. (I know this, because I'm on the court everyday)

And yeah, and I sort a know what angular momentum is, but thanks. I'll ask you this, because you seem to be the self appointed expert here, but do you know how linear and angular momentum work in conjunction..just in a broad sense?

weight transfer is not nebulous.

don't worry about how linear and angular momentum work in conjuction. it's not applicable. it's just a weak argument people use on forums in an attempt to demonstrate how smart they are when they can't back up a previous statement they made on some technical issue.

MikeHitsHard93 02-09-2013 03:01 PM

Looking for constructive criticism here, not arguments. Thanks to all that have positively contributed. Hopefully I can upload a video and go from there

v-verb 02-09-2013 03:11 PM

Using your arm alone worries me - just from the standpoint that it can stress your wrist, forearm muscles and elbow.

When I use proper weight transfer, I get a ton less stress on my wrist and forearm. I have an injured - but healing - wrist so I'm sensitive about that.

Also I can hit with a lot of power but little effort with proper weight transfer, rotation and relaxed wrist.


Just don't hurt yourself

chico9166 02-09-2013 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheetah (Post 7202738)
weight transfer is not nebulous.

don't worry about how linear and angular momentum work in conjuction. it's not applicable. it's just a weak argument people use on forums in an attempt to demonstrate how smart they are when they can't back up a previous statement they made on some technical issue.

Lol, whatever. I take it from your failure to address my question, that you have no idea what your talking about.

Kenzik 02-09-2013 06:06 PM

I think it just depends on how much power you want in your shot. More weight transfer, more power.


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