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-   -   Is Phillip Kohlschreiber using only 1 side of the racquet (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=454433)

jrs 02-11-2013 09:41 AM

Is Phillip Kohlschreiber using only 1 side of the racquet
 
Hi

Need experts here to settle an argument - I believe Phillip K. is using one side of the racquet to hit both forehand and backhand. Others tell me I am wrong. I believe there are others who do the same thing - especially with western forehand grip.

(NOTE: he switches sides on the first backhand to forehand - it's forehand to backhand - I am trying to verify)

I found this video of PK - after he hits the forehand - I believe he is hitting the backhand with the same side - but staring at the video is making me nuts!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noToy0CYLBQ

Let me know if I am seeing things or am I right
Thanks
JRS

Relinquis 02-11-2013 10:16 AM

the first backhand and the forehand are hit on different sides of the racquet.

he twirls his racquet sometimes in between shots to i doubt that he hits with the same side every time.

jrs 02-11-2013 10:25 AM

After the forehand
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Relinquis (Post 7206960)
the first backhand and the forehand are hit on different sides of the racquet.

he twirls his racquet sometimes in between shots to i doubt that he hits with the same side every time.

Thanks for the response - but after he hits the first forehand - the next backhand is he still using the same side?

I also thought Bjorn Borg used to hit both backhand and forehand on the same side.

RogerRacket111 02-11-2013 10:36 AM

I see him hitting both sides. Whats the advantage of hitting the same side? I would think its a disadvantage you only use one half of your string effectively in terms of wear and tear. Most pros rotate.

jrs 02-11-2013 10:47 AM

Look again please
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerRacket111 (Post 7207001)
I see him hitting both sides. Whats the advantage of hitting the same side? I would think its a disadvantage you only use one half of your string effectively in terms of wear and tear. Most pros rotate.

Yes, he uses both sides on the first backhand to forehand.

But after this he hits forehand - then next backhand - it's the same side he hit the forehand with - I stepped through the video on full screen and convinced - this is what happened.

I think they flip and turn the racquet a lot during a match - so I am sure both sides are being used - I am just trying to verify he is hitting one side of the racquet on forehand and backhand (which is very different from what I am used to). It mostly a function of the extreme forehand grip. It's just freaky! I didn't believe it at first - but there it is!

Mustard 02-11-2013 10:59 AM

Alberto Berasategui (the 1994 French Open runner-up and 1998 Australian Open quarter finalist) had an extreme western grip (the Hawaiian grip), and he hit his forehands and backhands with the same side of the racquet.

THESEXPISTOL 02-11-2013 11:01 AM

No! At least on first two strokes he used different sides...

jrs 02-11-2013 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustard (Post 7207039)
Alberto Berasategui (the 1994 French Open runner-up and 1998 Australian Open quarter finalist) had an extreme western grip (the Hawaiian grip), and he hit his forehands and backhands with the same side of the racquet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0l97WLuF0M

Yes, he does on majority of the shots.

jrs 02-11-2013 11:07 AM

It's forehand - backhand transition one side
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by THESEXPISTOL (Post 7207043)
No! At least on first two strokes he used different sides...

Yes, the backhand - forehand he switches sides
Next forehand - backhand he is using the same side! I am convinced!

paulorenzo 02-11-2013 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relinquis (Post 7206960)
the first backhand and the forehand are hit on different sides of the racquet.

he twirls his racquet sometimes in between shots to i doubt that he hits with the same side every time.

there are some interesting ideas i've read regarding this. it's possible to hit with the same side of the racquet, not only when forehand/ backhand grips are the same, but it's possible even when a player twirls a racquet.




a while ago, i read that there's a slight difference in the way the racquet bevels feel in the hand on different sides because of the way the grip is started.

it's not necessarily the topic at hand, since federer doesn't hit with same grip or same side of the bed for forehands as backhands—but consider federer's forehand, how much he twirls the racquet and how is asymmetrical racquet is always positioned during forehands. it doesn't justify whether or not he uses the same grip on the backhand, but it says it's possible to tell the difference what side a player is hitting in a habitual manner with even if they twirl their racquet as much as fededer. in every forehand picture i saw on google images from 2012, the predominantly whiter edge of the racquet is on the bottom.

conclusion is that if kohlschriber does indeed hit with the same side of the bed, he could arguably tell the difference of which side he hits from usually if he wants.








jrs 02-11-2013 12:14 PM

I am confused - are you just looking to post pictures of Federer - I believe they have another thread just for that. I would appreciate it - if we could stick to the video - I posted.

rufus_smith 02-11-2013 01:25 PM

what is looked like to me:
at 0:26 the racquet face that contacted the ball on the forehand shot is now facing the camera (the viewer) after that the other face is used to contact the ball on a bh.

So, no

byealmeens 02-11-2013 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrs (Post 7207202)
I am confused - are you just looking to post pictures of Federer - I believe they have another thread just for that. I would appreciate it - if we could stick to the video - I posted.

He is addressing your video by commenting on twirling, and player preference in terms of grips. What he’s saying is players tend to hit the same “face” on a certain stroke based more on how the grip feels rather than using the same face. This would seem to indicate that most players would use opposing faces if the grip feels better in a certain position. Federer is merely being used as an example.

tennis_pro 02-11-2013 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relinquis (Post 7206960)
the first backhand and the forehand are hit on different sides of the racquet.

he twirls his racquet sometimes in between shots to i doubt that he hits with the same side every time.

This. I see a lot of the pros doing it - Feds and Nads to start with.

Relinquis 02-11-2013 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulorenzo (Post 7207065)
there are some interesting ideas i've read regarding this. it's possible to hit with the same side of the racquet, not only when forehand/ backhand grips are the same, but it's possible even when a player twirls a racquet.

[...]

it is possible, but in the clip in the OP Philip actually hits with different sides when he goes from he first backhand to the first forehand. maybe it's a one off thing, maybe not.

i suppose it's easier for federer with the asymmetrically coloured stick and a custom grip to always be holding it in a certain way when he hits, even after twirling. When I have a somewhat worn grip i tend to hold my stick in a consistent manner as well, but not when i switch to my spare stick.

Pwned 02-11-2013 02:32 PM

It has been said by the commentators several times that Kohlschreiber returns serve with the same side of the racquet. His grip on forehand and backhand is nearly the same. I do a very similar thing. In that video though he switches sides. A semi-western/western forehand grip is very similar to an extreme backhand grip and doesn't need much, if any, changing.

Those Federer photos illustrate that he probably has a preferred method of gripping the racquet. The way the overgrip layers over itself creates ridges. If he has his pointer finger laying over one of the ridges and he were to switch sides randomly his grip on the racquet would move slightly up or down with the ridges. I hit nearly all my forehands on one side of the racquet because the ridge is exactly where I want it. If I switch to the other side my grip is slightly too far up or slightly too far down. Even twirling the racquet you automatically stop and get it on the correct side.

BevelDevil 02-11-2013 06:04 PM

on 0:20-0:40, yes, it's the same side.

From the forehand, he moves back into conti ready position by rolling his knuckles forward, rather than back. Then from conti, he rolls the knuckles back to eastern for the bh.

jrs 02-11-2013 07:46 PM

Thanks for confirming what I saw
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BevelDevil (Post 7207937)
on 0:20-0:40, yes, it's the same side.

From the forehand, he moves back into conti ready position by rolling his knuckles forward, rather than back. Then from conti, he rolls the knuckles back to eastern for the bh.


BevelDevil - thanks for the confirmation - funny many people aren't able to see it.

I am having an argument with couple of friends - they can't see it!

PaulLorenzo - my apologies - didn't follow the Federer forehand pictures.

Pwned 02-11-2013 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrs (Post 7208135)
BevelDevil - thanks for the confirmation - funny many people aren't able to see it.

I am having an argument with couple of friends - they can't see it!

PaulLorenzo - my apologies - didn't follow the Federer forehand pictures.

It's because no one read your whole post and just watched the first 2 shots.

jrs 02-11-2013 08:07 PM

You may be right
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pwned (Post 7208145)
It's because no one read your whole post and just watched the first 2 shots.

But locals I'm arguing with can't see it - I think people see what they believe - they don't see themselves hitting forehand and backhand on the same side - and they can't see it when some one else is doing it.

Very strange!


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