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-   -   Whos the toughest? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=455035)

Tropikal_Knights 02-17-2013 09:56 AM

Whos the toughest?
 
Mental toughness i.e.

Fed, Nadal, Murray, Djoker.............

In my mind it is Djoker.............even when he was not at his peak he used to give Fed a tough fight.........

Him going for outrageous shots matchpoint down and 9 times out of 10 making them is exemplary.

Some could make the case of Fed fighting back at his age to take on the young pretenders............

tennisaddict 02-17-2013 10:28 AM

Djokovic, clearly by his records since uso 2010

papertank 02-17-2013 11:00 AM

Djokovic's mental strength is actually a WEAPON for him, he not only doesn't choke on important points but players much better during them. Nadal on the other hand is strong in the way that he never gives less than 100%. He tends not to get the lapses in concentration that the other 3 get sometimes. Fed and Murray are less commendable, they can hold it together but there is nothing special about their mental strength.

Mustard 02-17-2013 12:19 PM

Rafael Nadal. The Rome finals of 2005 and 2006 are the best example. In the 2005 Rome final, Nadal trailed 0-3 (2 breaks) in the fifth set against Coria, and Coria had a game point on his serve for a 4-0 lead. Nadal came back to win in the fifth set tiebreak, although it took 4 championship points for Nadal before it ended. In the 2006 Rome final, Nadal trailed 1-4 (1 break) in the fifth set against Federer, saved 2 championship points when serving at 5-6 in the fifth set, and came back from 3-5 down in the fifth set tiebreak to win 4 points in a row and take the title.

rofl_copter3 02-17-2013 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustard (Post 7220620)
Rafael Nadal. The Rome finals of 2005 and 2006 are the best example. In the 2005 Rome final, Nadal trailed 0-3 (2 breaks) in the fifth set against Coria, and Coria had a game point on his serve for a 4-0 lead. Nadal came back to win in the fifth set tiebreak, although it took 4 championship points for Nadal before it ended. In the 2006 Rome final, Nadal trailed 1-4 (1 break) in the fifth set against Federer, saved 2 championship points when serving at 5-6 in the fifth set, and came back from 3-5 down in the fifth set tiebreak to win 4 points in a row and take the title.

How is this a better example than all of Djokers match points down coming back to win? I'm not saying one guy is tougher than the other, but I fail to see how your example proves your arguement.

Relinquis 02-17-2013 01:03 PM

has to be either Federer or Nadal... The former brings it on key points nearly every time, the latter doesn't give up ever and fights until the end.

Novak has improved a lot, but has had a history of mental weakness with his retirements and other antics.

Murray still has a long way to go in this capacity and shouldn't even be in this discussion regardless of how highly he is ranked at the moment. There are many many players who are stronger than he is mentally, Ferrer, DelPotro, etc...

If we include past players Sampras would rank very highly. The guy was cool. Tres cool.

Tennis_Hands 02-17-2013 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustard (Post 7220620)
Rafael Nadal. The Rome finals of 2005 and 2006 are the best example. In the 2005 Rome final, Nadal trailed 0-3 (2 breaks) in the fifth set against Coria, and Coria had a game point on his serve for a 4-0 lead. Nadal came back to win in the fifth set tiebreak, although it took 4 championship points for Nadal before it ended. In the 2006 Rome final, Nadal trailed 1-4 (1 break) in the fifth set against Federer, saved 2 championship points when serving at 5-6 in the fifth set, and came back from 3-5 down in the fifth set tiebreak to win 4 points in a row and take the title.

Yeah.

Because turning the match on the surface, that suits your game the most, and, in the case against Federer, having a favourable match-up against your opponent, shows exactly that.

veroniquem 02-17-2013 01:20 PM

Nadal and Djoko. That's why their clashes are so spectacular.

Steve0904 02-17-2013 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relinquis (Post 7220706)
has to be either Federer or Nadal... The former brings it on key points nearly every time, the latter doesn't give up ever and fights until the end.

Novak has improved a lot, but has had a history of mental weakness with his retirements and other antics.

Murray still has a long way to go in this capacity and shouldn't even be in this discussion regardless of how highly he is ranked at the moment. There are many many players who are stronger than he is mentally, Ferrer, DelPotro, etc...

If we include past players Sampras would rank very highly. The guy was cool. Tres cool.

I agree.

My ranking is:

1. Nadal
2. Federer
3. Djokovic
4. Murray

Mainad 02-17-2013 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relinquis (Post 7220706)
There are many many players who are stronger than he is mentally, Ferrer, DelPotro, etc...

How is Del Potro mentally stronger than Murray?

Fiji 02-17-2013 01:51 PM

Since 2011 it's Djokovic.

Relinquis 02-17-2013 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mainad (Post 7220776)
How is Del Potro mentally stronger than Murray?

in some ways he can afford to be as he can (usually) lean on his serve and big ground strokes to bail him out on key points: he has a simpler game.

has Delpo ever had something approximating Murray's 'feather' incident at the Australian Open? Also, i think Delpo's calm nonchalant demeanor help him stay focused. He is rarely flustered unless he makes a very silly mistake, then he moves on quickly. Murray seems to have more of a negative internal (often external) dialogue with himself. He has improved a lot and he is young enough to change. I just don't think he's at the level of some of the other players on tour.

Perhaps Delpo wasn't the best example, but i still think he is a level of toughness above Murray at the moment, though still short of others like Ferrer, etc...

Anyway, this Murray Vs. Delpo stuff reminded me of this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muM-UQc_Tnk

neither of them seem very calm there...

Tenez101 02-17-2013 02:20 PM

Right now:

1. Djokovic
2. Nadal
.
3. Federer
4. Murray

Taking their entire careers into perspective:

1. Nadal
2. Federer
.
3. Djokovic
.
4. Murray

Mainad 02-17-2013 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relinquis (Post 7220824)
has Delpo ever had something approximating Murray's 'feather' incident at the Australian Open?

Not sure, but then he's never got to play in the final of the Australian Open to find out ;-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relinquis (Post 7220824)
Also, i think Delpo's calm nonchalant demeanor help him stay focused. He is rarely flustered unless he makes a very silly mistake, then he moves on quickly. Murray seems to have more of a negative internal (often external) dialogue with himself. He has improved a lot and he is young enough to change. I just don't think he's at the level of some of the other players on tour.

The only players he's really not quite at the same mental level as are Djokovic, Federer and Nadal. Results speak for themselves. Murray has many more bigger titles than Delpo or any other player ranked below him (Nadal excepted of course). So if he IS mentally weaker than them in any way, it has certainly not held him back in achieving far more superior results!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relinquis (Post 7220824)

Anyway, this Murray Vs. Delpo stuff reminded me of this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muM-UQc_Tnk

neither of them seem very calm there...

Actually, Delpo DOES seem the calmer whereas Murray is the one getting agitated. Nonetheless, guess who won the match? :)

xan 02-17-2013 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rofl_copter3 (Post 7220694)
How is this a better example than all of Djokers match points down coming back to win? I'm not saying one guy is tougher than the other, but I fail to see how your example proves your arguement.

can you honestly tell me you expect a reasonable reply after what you've just read?
talking about it while taking examples from 8 year old matches is laughable at best.

cc0509 02-17-2013 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve0904 (Post 7220770)
I agree.

My ranking is:

1. Nadal
2. Federer
3. Djokovic
4. Murray

I agree with that ranking, at least OVERALL.

The-Champ 02-17-2013 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tennis_Hands (Post 7220738)
Yeah.

Because turning the match on the surface, that suits your game the most, and, in the case against Federer, having a favourable match-up against your opponent, shows exactly that.

Yeah, the humongous advantage the ridiculously talented Federer, with his plan A, B, C and D over the one-dimensional no-talent Nadal. :shock:

Talker 02-17-2013 04:00 PM

Fed seems the toughest by a good margin.
I used slams and not failing to get far in them as one criteria.

Fed made 18/19 finals in slams and didn't let down mentally to make them for so long.

Nadal would not keep his intensity, in the later parts of the year he would not stay tough.
Djokovic is about the same as Nadal, has trouble keeping himself at top level through the whole year, even in 2011.

1. Fed
2. Djokovic/Nadal

Steve0904 02-17-2013 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cc0509 (Post 7221067)
I agree with that ranking, at least OVERALL.

Yes, that was the basis for my ranking.

Right now I would say:

1. Djokovic
2. Federer
3. Murray
4. Nadal

citybert 02-17-2013 04:17 PM

If the pain is true then it has to be nadal. you could be mentally tougher than your opponent and still lose the point. Just happens.


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