Talk Tennis

Talk Tennis (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php)
-   Tennis Tips/Instruction (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17)
-   -   Key elements of an inside out Forehand (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=455639)

Lambo 02-23-2013 08:48 AM

Key elements of an inside out Forehand
 
I have been trying to hit and improve my inside out FH for a while now without much luck.

Either it goes out on the opposite tram lines or tend to shank the ball.

Anyone have any helpful advice on how to

A. Kill the ball inside out when presented with a short ball?

B. During a fast paced rally suddenly change direction of the ball to hit it inside out or DTL ? Have tried it but again whack it outside.

C. On another note when given a short ball try to kill it on the FH but tend to not generate enough pace or shank it outside DTL or inside out even though people say I have a big forehand .

Generally hit my FH with alot of topspin. Not heavy top but average.

SystemicAnomaly 02-23-2013 09:54 AM

When you set up for the IO Fh, do you quickly get up and around the ball so that you are lined up for the x-court shot? From that position you should be able to hit the x-court more naturally with you body rather with an orientation that is open too much. Your stance can be closed or even slightly open, but your upper body must be coiled sufficiently to be able to hit the x-court shot properly. If you set up correctly you should be able to hit the IO shot or uncoil a bit more to hit the ball DTL instead.

Also, see if you can hit a bit to the "outside" of the ball rather than the "inside" of the ball. Hitting on the "inside" of the ball will tend to make the ball path flare out more but this could also it more difficult to keep it in the court.

Cheetah 02-23-2013 09:59 AM

Hit the ball later than usual, more on the side of your body than out in front.
Hit the ball further away from your body than usual.(arm extended out more)
Hit the inside of the ball.

SystemicAnomaly 02-23-2013 10:29 AM

Do not lift your head/eyes during your forward swing to look at your target area. The temptation is great, but moving the head to look at the intended target area will usually throw off the swing path of your racket resulting in mishits. Instead, visualize your target area and keep your head very still during your forward swing with your eyes trained on your contact zone. You can look up as you are finishing your follow-thru. Federer and Nadal provide very good examples of keeping the head still and the eyes "quiet" during their fwd swing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheetah (Post 7232200)
...
Hit the inside of the ball.

Hitting the inside of the ball is fine if the OP can do so w/o hitting the ball into the alley (within the tramlines). However, the IO Fh can still be executed effectively (and more safely) hitting on the outside of the ball instead.

SystemicAnomaly 02-23-2013 10:53 AM

Note that hitting an inside shot is different that hitting the inside of the ball. (Refer to the Wardlaw Directionals for the difference between an inside shot and an outside shot). One can still hit the outside of the ball when hitting an inside shot. The IO Fh gets it name because the player runs around a ball that would be an outside shot to his/her Bh in order to make it an inside shot on their Fh side instead. They are hitting the ball to the outside of the opponent -- hence they are hitting an inside-out shot. While the pros will often also hit the inside of the ball in this situation, it is not absolutely necessary in order to hit the IO shot.

thecode 02-23-2013 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SystemicAnomaly (Post 7232277)
Note that hitting an inside shot is different that hitting the inside of the ball. (Refer to the Wardlaw Directionals for the difference between an inside shot and an outside shot). One can still hit the outside of the ball when hitting an inside shot. The IO Fh gets it name because the player runs around a ball that would be an outside shot to his/her Bh in order to make it an inside shot on their Fh side instead. They are hitting the ball to the outside of the opponent -- hence they are hitting an inside-out shot. While the pros will often also hit the inside of the ball in this situation, it is not absolutely necessary in order to hit the IO shot.

Do you have a reference or source for that definition of I/O?

SystemicAnomaly 02-23-2013 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecode (Post 7232329)
Do you have a reference or source for that definition of I/O?

Try a search of the Wardlaw Directionals. This should shed light on inside shots and outside shots.

TheCheese 02-23-2013 12:33 PM

It's all in the position of your wrist at contact. Just lay it back more to aim where you want it. Also, make sure you're getting a ton of topspin especially if you're changing directions to go up the line.

thecode 02-23-2013 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SystemicAnomaly (Post 7232376)
Try a search of the Wardlaw Directionals. This should shed light on inside shots and outside shots.

I'm very familiar with the directionals and just don't think that is the source of the term I/O. Maybe you are right, but there are plenty of scenarios where that view does not hold up and I'm pretty sure the I/O terms predates this quote below-

This system was developed in 1992 by Brown University Women’s Tennis Coach Paul Wardlaw.

I know I was hitting them well before 92 and pretty sure we already called it I/O. Interesting either way.

Cheetah 02-23-2013 12:56 PM

Yea im not sure the directionals are involved in the definition since you can hit i/o's back and forth to your opponent. I saw a different definition before. I'll see if i can find it.

thecode 02-23-2013 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheetah (Post 7232417)
Yea im not sure the directionals are involved in the definition since you can hit i/o's back and forth to your opponent. I saw a different definition before. I'll see if i can find it.

that would be cool if you run across it, thanks. He may be correct, but I just didn't think that was the origin of the term. Not a big deal of course.

Cheetah 02-23-2013 01:21 PM

darn. i can't find it. i thought it was on the tennisone site. it had to do with crossing the plane of the body or something like that.

but anyway here is a good sportscad video of inside / out technique on the tennisone site

http://www.tennisone.com/club/lesson...ych.public.php

SystemicAnomaly 02-23-2013 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecode (Post 7232437)
that would be cool if you run across it, thanks. He may be correct, but I just didn't think that was the origin of the term. Not a big deal of course.


Not saying that Paul Wardlaw invented the concept of inside shots and outside shots. In fact, some sources indicate that even the concept of directionals were used more than 20 years ago by other coaches for explaining high-percentage tactics in tennis. However, Wardlaw is credited with developing a more coherent & comprehensive system that he articulated much better than it had ever been before.

I do not actually know if the terms, inside shots & outside shots, predated Wardlaw's use of them or not. However, it appears the following USPTA video's "definition" of the IO Fh is consistent with Wardlaw's use of the terms.

http://www.tennisresources.com/index...idid=2360&rv=1

Tropikal_Knights 02-25-2013 09:31 AM

I am confused........I have read it is better to hit the outside of the ball on an inside out....but here some of you say inside and others outside......Im sure the poster is confused as well

Lambo 02-25-2013 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SystemicAnomaly (Post 7232194)
When you set up for the IO Fh, do you quickly get up and around the ball so that you are lined up for the x-court shot? From that position you should be able to hit the x-court more naturally with you body rather with an orientation that is open too much. Your stance can be closed or even slightly open, but your upper body must be coiled sufficiently to be able to hit the x-court shot properly. If you set up correctly you should be able to hit the IO shot or uncoil a bit more to hit the ball DTL instead.

Also, see if you can hit a bit to the "outside" of the ball rather than the "inside" of the ball. Hitting on the "inside" of the ball will tend to make the ball path flare out more but this could also it more difficult to keep it in the court.

I guess I am bit late in stepping up. The biggest problem for me is to generate enough power into that shot. Maybe the coiling would help with that?

But I do have issues with power on that shot unlike in general.

Cheetah 02-25-2013 10:16 AM

inside of the ball would be optimal.
you can hit the outside of the ball if you don't have the mechanics down yet as it's safer.
But I would work towards hitting the inside of the ball otherwise you might end up just using a 'down the line' stroke for your inside out shot.

Mahboob Khan 02-25-2013 10:20 AM

Well, if you are lazy to run around your BH to set up for this kind of shot.

Remember, you can hit an insideout FH when the ball is a bit short and you have the time to run around it, the rest is like you are hitting your regular FH just that your target is the backhand of the RH opponent. Instead of hitting your FH in a deuce corner, you are hitting it in the ad court. It's an aggresive shot if hit properly.

Go to www.tennisplayer.net and watch Federer does that.

SystemicAnomaly 02-25-2013 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheetah (Post 7235621)
inside of the ball would be optimal...
But I would work towards hitting the inside of the ball otherwise you might end up just using a 'down the line' stroke for your inside out shot.

It might be optimal in many cases but is not absolutely necessary. I have seen elite players hit the IO shot on the inside as well as the outside of the ball. If the OP is having difficulty keeping the ball out of the alley, I would suggest going primarily for the outside of the ball for a while. Here is Gary Sakuma (hi10spro) hitting IO forehands. While he hits some of them on the inside of the ball, many are on the outside (particularly in the 1st part of this video):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SqE8WWlBYk

thecode 02-26-2013 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SystemicAnomaly (Post 7232905)
Not saying that Paul Wardlaw invented the concept of inside shots and outside shots. In fact, some sources indicate that even the concept of directionals were used more than 20 years ago by other coaches for explaining high-percentage tactics in tennis. However, Wardlaw is credited with developing a more coherent & comprehensive system that he articulated much better than it had ever been before.

I do not actually know if the terms, inside shots & outside shots, predated Wardlaw's use of them or not. However, it appears the following USPTA video's "definition" of the IO Fh is consistent with Wardlaw's use of the terms.

http://www.tennisresources.com/index...idid=2360&rv=1

Yes, good points - my mistake, thanks.

Cheetah 02-26-2013 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SystemicAnomaly (Post 7235858)
It might be optimal in many cases but is not absolutely necessary. I have seen elite players hit the IO shot on the inside as well as the outside of the ball. If the OP is having difficulty keeping the ball out of the alley, I would suggest going primarily for the outside of the ball for a while. Here is Gary Sakuma (hi10spro) hitting IO forehands. While he hits some of them on the inside of the ball, many are on the outside (particularly in the 1st part of this video):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SqE8WWlBYk

I hear ya. Good point.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:48 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2006 - Tennis Warehouse