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-   -   Double faulting (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=456006)

aznhippos 02-26-2013 05:41 PM

Double faulting
 
Hi, how can I fix double faulting? Should I always aim for my first serve to be in, or flat and fast?

WildVolley 02-26-2013 06:15 PM

Learn how to hit a topspin second serve. That's going to be the best solution.

A properly hit topspin serve will require you to take a full swing at the ball and use the racket head speed to put spin to force it down into the court. The topspin will greatly increase your target window above the net without hitting long.

LeeD 02-26-2013 07:55 PM

Practice.
Like a flat first serve, a heavy spinning topspin second serve cannot be attained without tons of practice.
Any decent player should be able to swing at least 95% fast and get his second spin serve IN.
That same player might swing the same speed on a flat first attempt, and get maybe 50% of them IN.

BU-Tennis 02-26-2013 08:54 PM

How aggressive you can be with your first serve depends on the reliability and also effectiveness of your second serve. If your second serve is going in 100% of the time and its easily attacked by your opponent, then you can take more chances on your first. However, if your second is faulty (pun) or can be attacked then you need to try and get more first serves in.

I always get a kick out of playing guys who would blast their first serve and never get one in and then power puff the second and you could just lay into it for a return winner almost every time.

With that said, a topspin second serve is a good option also a slice serve can be just as reliable if it has a little more topspin than a typical slice (i believe this is a Kick serve, as in it kicks up and away).

Wes_Loves_Dunlop 02-26-2013 09:11 PM

A topspin-slice serve is different than a kick serve in that for a righty, a topspin-slice will still bounce to the server's left while a kick serve will bounce to the server's right

The best solution for a good second serve is to develop one with a lot of topspin, or learn a kick serve if you can manage it. Like eveyrthing that needs to be reliable, it will take time.

The most important thing is to not be scared to hit your second serve. Swing at it with everything you've got. That will be hard to do unless you've practiced it enough.

Practice,practice,practice

BU-Tennis 02-26-2013 09:24 PM

Its a myth you swing as hard as you can at your second serve if you're attempting to hit a topspin serve (or kick, or twist, or topspin-slice, or American twist, or twist kick...whatever lol). You can have an effective and reliable topspin serve without swinging at 100%. What is true is you do swing just as hard, and maybe a little bit harder, at a spin serve as you do at a flat serve, but this doesn't mean 100% of effort.

Nellie 02-27-2013 06:02 AM

If you are double faulting a lot, you need to put away any type of flat, low percentage serve and hit two second serves in a row. Even if you don't have a great second serve percentage (let's say you get two-thirds in), you will significant;y cut down the number of double faults. I can't suggest a particular type of second serve since I don't know your game.

Also keep in mind that you can improve your serve percentage with location and not just type of serve. Obviously you can aim for the center of the service box to give yourself lots of margins for error. I like to aim over the low part (center tape) of the net. If you are feeling good one day (i.e., every serve seems to be going in), go for more agressive placement near the lines instead of more pace.

Relinquis 02-27-2013 07:28 AM

try to get your first serve % up (say 50%+ go in), either by occasionally using a topspin serve as a first serve or by adding some spin to your flat serve to give you margin. the idea of a 1st serve isn't to get an ace or service winner, rather to start the point on a good footing and in control.

Also, develop a solid topspin serve for your 2nd serve so you can rely on it every time on your 2nd serve. It will make double faults a rare occurrence and you will start points at neutral or better even on your 2nd serve.

Mahboob Khan 02-27-2013 08:31 AM

Obviously, you need to improve your first serve percentage, and learn an effective kick serve to act as a "double insurance". High percentage of first serves and a reliable kick serve will solve the double fault problem.

LeeD 02-27-2013 01:28 PM

As seen on TV, every pro tries to hit a hard first serve for a winner or weak return, then hits a heavy topspin of some kind second serve that is much slower but always goes IN.

aznhippos 02-27-2013 09:29 PM

So what you guys are saying is that a topspin serve is the highest percentage shot?

I've practiced many hours trying to perfect the kick serve. It just doesn't work for me

OTMPut 02-27-2013 09:43 PM

What breaks my heart is the 3s hitting monster flat first serves and then tapping the ball in weak seconds and still double faulting.

Why not adopt a "take no prisoner" attitude and die gloriously? Long live Goran.

maxpotapov 02-27-2013 10:56 PM

Pete Sampras hit two first serves, pretty much. I think this is mentally more stable approach and more productive for non-professional player development. Or two second serves, does not matter. Use second serve as another chance to make it right, not to risk doing something completely different.

TheCheese 02-28-2013 03:40 AM

Add topspin to everything. Add a little more topspin to your first serve to get percentages up. Add way more topspin to your second serve to make it consistent.

Buford T Justice 02-28-2013 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCheese (Post 7241341)
Add topspin to everything. Add a little more topspin to your first serve to get percentages up. Add way more topspin to your second serve to make it consistent.

I can say with some amount of certainty, after closely paying attention to this at the DelRay qualies, that most pros are not hitting their first serves as hard and flat as they can most of the time. Id say a good 50%+ of the time they are hitting first serves that are not flat at all. They are p[rimarily spin serves of some kind.

Certain guys (Gulbis, etc) absolutely pound every serve, but they were the exception.

I believe this is a good lesson for us rec players.

Buford T Justice 02-28-2013 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 7240305)
As seen on TV, every pro tries to hit a hard first serve for a winner or weak return, then hits a heavy topspin of some kind second serve that is much slower but always goes IN.

I think this is more true at the highest echelon of pro tennis (i.e. the guys we see on TV most of the time), but not as much true of the "regular" pros.

Bobby Jr 02-28-2013 05:12 AM

Perhaps this is not so much a technical question but one of how the second serve is approached.

Most players hit their second serve with a component of 'hope' involved. I.e. as they're hitting it they hope it goes in. In long matches or pressure situations for most people the natural tendency is for this to worsen. Hence why the vast majority of club players hit their double faults in groups and/or as they get more flustered/bewildered.

Caution in serving (and other shots but serving in particular) leads to tightness/lack of fluidness and pretty soon it becomes a scenario where most people are wishing their second serve in instead of making sure they actually hit a good one.

I used to be a terrible server because I was too cautious when things were tight but one year I decided to change. I started making certain I went up for all of my serves and that I swung fluidly (easier said than done mind you) in all matches. Now, you'd expect there to be a honeymoon period where this caused lots of issues but I discovered that there barely was one. Straight away my serves - both first and second - improved out of sight.

It takes some effort but if there is one shot in tennis where you must rid yourself of any element of "I hope this works" if you're ever to have a truly dependable shot it is the serve.

It is the mental habit, often moreso than technical habits, which must become that: a habit. No fear, no hesitation, no meekness - hit the serve how you know you can in practice.

Govnor 02-28-2013 06:28 AM

The timing for a second serve is critical, it is not easy to hit a second serve swinging at top speed. It takes practice. As others have said, that is the key to everything. It's one thing I need to work on this year for sure. I don't get enough racquet head speed on my 2nd serve so it get's caught in that no mans land of not much speed and not much spin. More spin is "safer", which is generally why it is used on the 2nd serve.

Fintft 02-28-2013 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BU-Tennis (Post 7238841)
I always get a kick out of playing guys who would blast their first serve and never get one in and then power puff the second and you could just lay into it for a return winner almost every time.
.

That's why I never "power puff" my second one; I'd rather use my first serve twice :) Or just a slightly more top spin one.

Anyhow, didn't have the time to develop a second serve per say, just focusing on serving a more...relaxed first serve with the second ball (using the first one as warm-up so to speak).

LeeD 02-28-2013 08:56 AM

Remember, while a second serve is swung very fast, it is not swung with maximum effort. Rather, it's maximum speed of swing with repeatable effort.
Same with a flat first serve. While we like to think we swing 100%, in reality, it's 100% within our own individual parameters.
If we really swung as fast as we could, with maximum effort, our percentages would be rediculously low.
Speed and power always governed by CONTROL and REPEATABILITY.


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