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-   -   How can I play tennis, lose fat, and build muscle all at the same time? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=456009)

limitup 02-26-2013 06:16 PM

How can I play tennis, lose fat, and build muscle all at the same time?
 
OK I know it's almost impossible to lose fat and build muscle at the same time ... and I'm sure the ~16 hours of intense tennis/cardio a week isn't great for trying to build up muscle either ... but I'm looking for some expert guidance on how to best achieve my goals, which are:

1. Lose about 5-10 more lbs of fat
2. Get stronger and gain some size
3. Continue to play competitive tennis

The problem is that I live and play in sunny so cal, and I have no offseason when it comes to tennis. When I'm not playing in leagues and tournaments, I'm still playing competitive matches against friends, practicing, etc.

Right now I'm trying to do everything at the same time and as you can imagine it's not going great lol.

I've pretty much maintained my current weight of 178 for the past month. I assume I'm still losing a little fat and maybe building a tiny build of muscle, but maybe not. The big problem is my recovery from both tennis and lifting too. I'm constantly sore, and after a good leg day it really screws up my tennis the next 1-2 days.

I don't NEED to lose another 10 lbs of fat, so I guess at this point that's the lowest priority. If I lose 10 lbs I'd be pretty "ripped" so even losing another 5 lbs would be awesome (I've lost about 25 in the past year).

I do need to work on getting stronger and "beefing up" a bit. I just need to get a little stronger overall to help stay injury free as I take my game to the next level ... and a little more strength and size is always welcome too.

Do I just need to focus 110% on losing the weight first (if I really want to) over the next month or so, and then once I'm at my target weight just start lifting again and eat whatever I figure out is my maintenance calories at that point?

Or I could obviously say screw it and start eating a little more now and not worry about these last 5-10 lbs (which have proven to be hard to get rid of).

In the long run, do I need to force myself to have some kind of offseason, use periodization, etc. to do this stuff right?

(FYI I'm a 39 yr old male, 5'11" @ 178 lbs in relatively good shape)

colowhisper 02-27-2013 06:38 AM

Do you pay attention to your nutrition? I had an epiphany last year in fitness when I learned to manipulate my weight and strength by controlling my "macro nutrient" ratios: fat, carb, protein intake based on my activities for the day ie strength training vs aerobic vs rest. I use myfitnesspal app to track the ratios. I am about your age and always been in decent shape too but shaved my love handles and added a lot of lean muscle quickly this way. BTW, I did NOT "diet." I ate a lot of everything I like, mostly added protein to my diet and ate more frequently than I used too to stoke the metabolism.

limitup 02-27-2013 06:44 AM

Thanks for the reply. I eat relatively "healthy", very little sugar or crap, and I try to limit carbs on days I'm not playing tennis, but other than that no. I have a very basic understanding of macros, but I don't see myself using some app to keep track of what I eat.

I'd love to hear more details about what worked for you though in terms of balancing tennis, weight training, rest and eating...

sureshs 02-27-2013 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by limitup (Post 7238611)
The problem is that I live and play in sunny so cal, and I have no offseason when it comes to tennis.

I also have the same "problem" :-) I like such problems.

r2473 02-27-2013 09:59 AM

Quote:

How can I play tennis, lose fat, and build muscle all at the same time?
I have a program for sale designed to do all that AND make you a millionaire. Just send me 4 easy installments of $29.99. If you act now, I'll make the first payment for you and double the offer.

peoplespeace 02-27-2013 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pbarrow (Post 7239326)
Do you pay attention to your nutrition? I had an epiphany last year in fitness when I learned to manipulate my weight and strength by controlling my "macro nutrient" ratios: fat, carb, protein intake based on my activities for the day ie strength training vs aerobic vs rest. I use myfitnesspal app to track the ratios. I am about your age and always been in decent shape too but shaved my love handles and added a lot of lean muscle quickly this way. BTW, I did NOT "diet." I ate a lot of everything I like, mostly added protein to my diet and ate more frequently than I used too to stoke the metabolism.

As far as i know the jury has come back re the matabolic effect of eating 5-6 meals a day: The verdict is that is is/was a myth that this increases the matabolic rate in comparison o eating just 3 meals a day.

OP, when u are 10 lbs from being from being super ripped u drop the last fat by eating 500 to 700 cal less than u burn a day for 3 days and then on the fourth day u eat 500-700 cal more than u burn. In one month that will give u a deficit of about 10000 cal or 3 lbs, so in 3 months ull be superripped. I was super ripped for 6 month two yr ago until i binge ate congolese coco coocies one day! From the it was down hill and now im about 10-12 lbs from super ripped. Dont do this diet while lifting. U can lose fat and build muscle aqt the same time only if ur overweight.

Then when ur ripped u start lifting once a week when u lift like crazy, upper body and legs.

NLBwell 02-27-2013 08:52 PM

Pick 2 of 3 - at least if the tennis is a few hours a day. If you are only playing a couple of hours a couple times a week, you should be able to build muscle just fine.

limitup 02-27-2013 09:21 PM

Thanks for the replies. Yeah that's what I'm learning - with this much cardio/tennis it's hard or impossible to build muscle.

I guess the next question is ... assuming I don't really care about BIGGER muscles ... can I still get STRONGER or is it really the same situation?

I think getting stronger comes from not only more muscle fibers but also the type of muscle fibers that makeup any given muscle. I believe it's possible to "re-train" the muscle you already have to be stronger, without actually making it bigger??

boramiNYC 02-27-2013 10:13 PM

try to play much better tennis than just for fun. do tournaments and try to win them too. on the way to realizing that goal you'll realize your fat is gone and you'll have full of lean strong muscles. everything you wanted. now are you up for the challenge?..

limitup 02-28-2013 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pbarrow (Post 7239326)
Do you pay attention to your nutrition? I had an epiphany last year in fitness when I learned to manipulate my weight and strength by controlling my "macro nutrient" ratios: fat, carb, protein intake based on my activities for the day ie strength training vs aerobic vs rest. I use myfitnesspal app to track the ratios. I am about your age and always been in decent shape too but shaved my love handles and added a lot of lean muscle quickly this way. BTW, I did NOT "diet." I ate a lot of everything I like, mostly added protein to my diet and ate more frequently than I used too to stoke the metabolism.

Would love to hear about what ratios you shoot for on strength training vs aerobic vs rest days. Maybe I'll have to get more serious about this. Checking out the myfitnesspal site now ...

colowhisper 02-28-2013 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by limitup (Post 7239344)
I'd love to hear more details about what worked for you though in terms of balancing tennis, weight training, rest and eating...

Over the winter I lifted heavy weights twice a week, did plyometrics and HIIT once a week and hot yoga once a week. Most weeks played tennis one night indoors and outdoors a few times as weather permitted, rest one or two days. I did not lose any weight but transferred all my midsection flab into muscle and am so much faster now. Despite the jury comment above, I attribute a lot to the meal plan recommended to me, which was 3 meals and 3 snacks per day and timing the nutrient intake (eat immediately after weight training, eat protein snack before bed etc). We'll see how things change now that tennis season is starting. Good luck with your plan.

limitup 02-28-2013 05:58 AM

Were you just doing full body workouts or ?

Can you share what macro ratios you were shooting for on strength training vs tennis vs rest days?

Do you lift and play tennis on the same day or generally try to avoid it?

Anything else you can share would be much appreciated. Thanks!

colowhisper 02-28-2013 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by limitup (Post 7241492)
Would love to hear about what ratios you shoot for on strength training vs aerobic vs rest days. Maybe I'll have to get more serious about this. Checking out the myfitnesspal site now ...

Best thing about myfitnesspal is how easy it is. Most "meals" are already in there and when you eat anything with a bar code you just scan it with your phone. I never was the type to track my food but I am a gadget junkie and this made it fun for me. When you input excercise it will adjust your calories,myou can also change your goals to see the ratios. Only change I make manually is to up the protein intake a lot on weight days per a trainers advice.

colowhisper 02-28-2013 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by limitup (Post 7241533)
Were you just doing full body workouts or ?

Can you share what macro ratios you were shooting for on strength training vs tennis vs rest days?

Do you lift and play tennis on the same day or generally try to avoid it?

Anything else you can share would be much appreciated. Thanks!

No, only one type of workout per day in general. Mostly followed this routine:
http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com...-training.html

limitup 02-28-2013 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pbarrow (Post 7241542)
Best thing about myfitnesspal is how easy it is. Most "meals" are already in there and when you eat anything with a bar code you just scan it with your phone. I never was the type to track my food but I am a gadget junkie and this made it fun for me. When you input excercise it will adjust your calories,myou can also change your goals to see the ratios. Only change I make manually is to up the protein intake a lot on weight days per a trainers advice.

Thanks for the reply. That's interesting about the macros. It makes sense to add more protein on workout days, but I would imagine the ideal macros would be totally different on a rest day vs. a tennis day for example. You're saying you just aimed for whatever macros myfitnesspal give you? As far as I can tell these are just generic "recommended" macros and it's the same every day i.e. the recommend macros don't change based on what you're doing that day. Maybe I need to play around with it some more...

Fintft 02-28-2013 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by limitup (Post 7238611)
OK I know it's almost impossible to lose fat and build muscle at the same time ... and I'm sure the ~16 hours of intense tennis/cardio a week isn't great for trying to build up muscle either ... but I'm looking for some expert guidance on how to best achieve my goals, which are:

1. Lose about 5-10 more lbs of fat
2. Get stronger and gain some size
3. Continue to play competitive tennis

The problem is that I live and play in sunny so cal, and I have no offseason when it comes to tennis. When I'm not playing in leagues and tournaments, I'm still playing competitive matches against friends, practicing, etc.

Right now I'm trying to do everything at the same time and as you can imagine it's not going great lol.

I've pretty much maintained my current weight of 178 for the past month. I assume I'm still losing a little fat and maybe building a tiny build of muscle, but maybe not. The big problem is my recovery from both tennis and lifting too. I'm constantly sore, and after a good leg day it really screws up my tennis the next 1-2 days.

I don't NEED to lose another 10 lbs of fat, so I guess at this point that's the lowest priority. If I lose 10 lbs I'd be pretty "ripped" so even losing another 5 lbs would be awesome (I've lost about 25 in the past year).

I do need to work on getting stronger and "beefing up" a bit. I just need to get a little stronger overall to help stay injury free as I take my game to the next level ... and a little more strength and size is always welcome too.

Do I just need to focus 110% on losing the weight first (if I really want to) over the next month or so, and then once I'm at my target weight just start lifting again and eat whatever I figure out is my maintenance calories at that point?

Or I could obviously say screw it and start eating a little more now and not worry about these last 5-10 lbs (which have proven to be hard to get rid of).

In the long run, do I need to force myself to have some kind of offseason, use periodization, etc. to do this stuff right?

(FYI I'm a 39 yr old male, 5'11" @ 178 lbs in relatively good shape)

I'm older then you, 6'2" @ 220 lbs, in so and so shape (but with endurance) and with a new minor meniscus tear (plus similar injuries from my past basketball matches as a power forward).

I do try to play 5-6 times a week, 2 hours at a time, indoors in the winter alas (and that takes a toll on me knees, see above) as I move aggressively, although I do tend to keep the points shorter. In the summer I go for clay.

I try to do some light workout even in the days I play, especially for the core: push-ups, crunches, planks. Plus I use the chest expander (the ones with 5 bands) and some light lifting. Spinning also on some days on my exercise bike and jumps (without a rope, but similar).

I stay away from carbs and eat lots of fruits (and some veggies) daily, like literally tons + fish preferably and or chicken soup. I do binge occasionally in dark chocolate and I also hike often or walk days in a row (tourism). I stay away from fast foods, sodas and so forth.

One of my biggest mistakes is making my own red wine; albeit healthy in some ways, I tend to eat more with it (and finish with some hazelnuts and such).

For recovery do you do any kind of massaging of your large muscles, while taking a hot shower (ideally no later then 5-10 minutes after you've finished exercising as per USTA and my former basketball coach)?

Itagaki 02-28-2013 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by limitup (Post 7238611)
OK I know it's almost impossible to lose fat and build muscle at the same time ... and I'm sure the ~16 hours of intense tennis/cardio a week isn't great for trying to build up muscle either ... but I'm looking for some expert guidance on how to best achieve my goals, which are:

1. Lose about 5-10 more lbs of fat
2. Get stronger and gain some size
3. Continue to play competitive tennis

The problem is that I live and play in sunny so cal, and I have no offseason when it comes to tennis. When I'm not playing in leagues and tournaments, I'm still playing competitive matches against friends, practicing, etc.

Right now I'm trying to do everything at the same time and as you can imagine it's not going great lol.

I've pretty much maintained my current weight of 178 for the past month. I assume I'm still losing a little fat and maybe building a tiny build of muscle, but maybe not. The big problem is my recovery from both tennis and lifting too. I'm constantly sore, and after a good leg day it really screws up my tennis the next 1-2 days.

I don't NEED to lose another 10 lbs of fat, so I guess at this point that's the lowest priority. If I lose 10 lbs I'd be pretty "ripped" so even losing another 5 lbs would be awesome (I've lost about 25 in the past year).

I do need to work on getting stronger and "beefing up" a bit. I just need to get a little stronger overall to help stay injury free as I take my game to the next level ... and a little more strength and size is always welcome too.

Do I just need to focus 110% on losing the weight first (if I really want to) over the next month or so, and then once I'm at my target weight just start lifting again and eat whatever I figure out is my maintenance calories at that point?

Or I could obviously say screw it and start eating a little more now and not worry about these last 5-10 lbs (which have proven to be hard to get rid of).

In the long run, do I need to force myself to have some kind of offseason, use periodization, etc. to do this stuff right?

(FYI I'm a 39 yr old male, 5'11" @ 178 lbs in relatively good shape)

Accomplish the weight/fat loss through dietary changes. But I would NOT have you drop weight lifting during this process. I wouldn't focus on trying to put up big numbers or do sessions with tons of volume, but keep it up in general. When it comes to cutting weight, you'd want to "encourage" your body to not use muscle as fuel, which is probably best accomplished with adequate protein intake and continued resistance training

colowhisper 02-28-2013 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peoplespeace (Post 7240238)
OP, when u are 10 lbs from being from being super ripped u drop the last fat by eating 500 to 700 cal less than u burn a day for 3 days and then on the fourth day u eat 500-700 cal more than u burn.

I am intrigued by this assertion and concept. I estimate I am 5 pounds from being "ripped" as you put it, the last tiny bit of love handles hiding the core that I know is my beer habit despite all the training. What is the point of the super caloric intake day? Versus just reducing the calories?

colowhisper 02-28-2013 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by limitup (Post 7241598)
Thanks for the reply. That's interesting about the macros. It makes sense to add more protein on workout days, but I would imagine the ideal macros would be totally different on a rest day vs. a tennis day for example. You're saying you just aimed for whatever macros myfitnesspal give you? As far as I can tell these are just generic "recommended" macros and it's the same every day i.e. the recommend macros don't change based on what you're doing that day. Maybe I need to play around with it some more...

I actually got my original ratios from reading a book called "The Testosterone Advantage Plan" which i also recommend. The super fast results inspired me to keep going. After a few months I developed a feel for ratios day by day depending on exertion level. I actually don't pay much attention to the ratios in the app anymore, but it taught me which foods and ratios gave me different energy levels.

Itagaki 02-28-2013 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pbarrow (Post 7242946)
I am intrigued by this assertion and concept. I estimate I am 5 pounds from being "ripped" as you put it, the last tiny bit a love handles hiding the core that I know is my beer habit despite all the training. What is the point of the super caloric intake day? Versus just reducing the calories?

Caloric cycling (and often carb cycling) is sometimes useful for those that at lower bodyfat levels trying to get lower. Also works for everyone else, but the closer you get to single digit bf the harder it is to keep losing.

Diets like Cyclical Keto and Carb Nite use a similar principle

General idea I think is keeping hormone levels in check? In the case of CKD and Carb Nite it enables one to use up their glycogen stores and then refill them with a cheat day. So essentially you remain in a caloric deficit most of the time and then have a single window of surplus, also keeps you sane.


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