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-   -   David Ferrer is better than Berdych, Tsonga and Del Potro (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=456043)

tennispro492 02-27-2013 08:12 AM

David Ferrer is better than Berdych, Tsonga and Del Potro
 
Its true- look at the proof, the head to head records-

vs ~Del Potro- http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/...=F401&oId=D683

Vs Berdych- http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/...=F401&oId=BA47

Vs Tsonga- http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/...=F401&oId=T786


The results are indisputable, and speak for themselves. Watch Ferrer vs Berdych in Abu Dhabi 2012 for some aggressive tennis from Ferrer, who doesnt get his due on this forum. He can be aggressive, and despite claims to the contrary, he has a powerful forehand which is among the most accurate on tour. Also his serve is great and very consistent- he served something like 15 aces in his match vs Almagro in AO.

Andres 02-27-2013 08:14 AM

Del Potro won the USO.
Berdych was runner up at Wimbledon, beating Federer.
Tsonga was runner up at the Australian Open, beating Nadal, and has also beaten Federer at Wimbledon.

Is he more consistent than those guys? Yes. Better? Dont think so.

tennispro492 02-27-2013 08:17 AM

Daveed has made 5 semi finals since 2011, and consistently kicks all their asses, so he is better.

Andres 02-27-2013 08:18 AM

Finals are better than semis.
Titles too.

Hitman 02-27-2013 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andres (Post 7239414)
Del Potro won the USO.
Berdych was runner up at Wimbledon, beating Federer.
Tsonga was runner up at the Australian Open, beating Nadal, and has also beaten Federer at Wimbledon.

Is he more consistent than those guys? Yes. Better? Dont think so.

Tsonga is in fact the only player to beat ALL four members of the big four in a slam.

Ferrer, with the exception to stopping the Rafa slam, which is no small feat, hasn't even been in slam final yet, failing in the semis against the big four every single time.

President 02-27-2013 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andres (Post 7239414)
Del Potro won the USO.
Berdych was runner up at Wimbledon, beating Federer.
Tsonga was runner up at the Australian Open, beating Nadal, and has also beaten Federer at Wimbledon.

Is he more consistent than those guys? Yes. Better? Dont think so.

I think it is also a matchup issue with the big 4, those other 3 guys don't rely so much on their wheels as Ferrer does and can hit through the top 4. Ferrer relies a lot on outmaneuvering his opponent and with the exceptional court coverage of the top 4 he is unable to do that. So against the top 4, yes those players are better.

But against basically all other players, Ferrer can be possibly considered "better" than them IMO. For example, I think Del Potro playing his very best level would still lose to Ferrer at his best (contrary to the popular belief). The players Ferrer has real trouble beating are those with exceptional movement, and the top 4 happen to be amazing in that category. Interestingly, other players Ferrer has trouble with are Monfils and Davydenko, two other exceptional movers outside the top 4.

It's not just a matter of him being more consistent than them, against 95% of the field he is actually a better player than Berdych, Tsonga, and Del Potro IMO. Just a bad matchup with the big 4.

tennispro492 02-27-2013 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by President (Post 7239438)
I think it is also a matchup issue with the big 4, those other 3 guys don't rely so much on their wheels as Ferrer does and can hit through the top 4. Ferrer relies a lot on outmaneuvering his opponent and with the exceptional court coverage of the top 4 he is unable to do that. So against the top 4, yes those players are better.

But against basically all other players, Ferrer can be possibly considered "better" than them IMO. For example, I think Del Potro playing his very best level would still lose to Ferrer at his best (contrary to the popular belief). The players Ferrer has real trouble beating are those with exceptional movement, and the top 4 happen to be amazing in that category. Interestingly, other players Ferrer has trouble with are Monfils and Davydenko, two other exceptional movers outside the top 4.

It's not just a matter of him being more consistent than them, against 95% of the field he is actually a better player than Berdych, Tsonga, and Del Potro IMO. Just a bad matchup with the big 4.



quoted for truth. Del Potroand Berd at their best could never beat Ferrer at his best, though Tsonga may be able to

Chanwan 02-27-2013 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennispro492 (Post 7239503)
quoted for truth. Del Potroand Berd at their best could never beat Ferrer at his best, though Tsonga may be able to

While President's analysis is interesting and certainly have some merit to it, I do believe that a Delpo, Tsonga or Berdych playing as well as they can will beat a Ferrer playing as well as he can.

Why? We all agree that when on, they can 'hit their opponent off the court', 'take the racquet out of their opponents hands' and all those things.
Enough to be able to beat the Big Four even when they're not playing poor at all and even when they're playing very well (exhibit: Tsonga vs. Fed at Wimbledon)

Same should hold true against Ferrer.
Though his best may beat their best on clay (Delpo being the question-mark there).

kiki 02-27-2013 08:53 AM

Ferrer is better than many to catch sleep:-D

President 02-27-2013 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chanwan (Post 7239537)
While President's analysis is interesting and certainly have some merit to it, I do believe that a Delpo, Tsonga or Berdych playing as well as they can will beat a Ferrer playing as well as he can.

Why? We all agree that when on, they can 'hit their opponent off the court', 'take the racquet out of their opponents hands' and all those things.
Enough to be able to beat the Big Four even when they're not playing poor at all and even when they're playing very well (exhibit: Tsonga vs. Fed at Wimbledon)

Same should hold true against Ferrer.
Though his best may beat their best on clay (Delpo being the question-mark there).

I can agree with you on Tsonga, he is a fantastic mover when he is playing well as well as a big hitter. But no, I don't think Del Potro playing his best would beat an on-fire Ferrer on any surface except maybe clay (ironically). I have watched every single Del Potro-Ferrer matchup, and it's obvious to me that Del Potro just doesn't have the footwork or speed to match Ferrer. It doesn't matter how hard he hits the ball because he is always going to be out of position anyway because Ferrer takes the ball so early and places it amazingly with his forehand. Watch Del Potro vs Ferrer at Wimbledon or Miami last year, they were really tutorials on how to beat a clumsy big hitter.

And I thought we were talking about playing at their best, I don't think Federer was playing well at all in the 2009 USO (well, after the first set and a half at least) for example.

joeri888 02-27-2013 08:55 AM

Ferrer's better on clay than all of them together on the same court.

Relinquis 02-27-2013 08:55 AM

he owns them on all surfaces... you guys should watch their matches and learn from him. is mentally stronger, more athletic, has a better tennis brain and more heart than these guys... Beast.

NadalAgassi 02-27-2013 08:58 AM

He is better than them right now. Considering entire careers he is still the weakest of them all though.

bezs 02-27-2013 08:58 AM

What he lacks in size and power he makes up for it in heart and effort.

President 02-27-2013 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi (Post 7239566)
He is better than them right now. Considering entire careers he is still the weakest of them all though.

I can understand you saying that about Del Potro (although his USO win is literally the only thing he has over Ferrer, he is much worse in every other career metric), but for Berdych and Tsonga it makes no sense. They have 1 slam final each, Ferrer has none. Ok. But Ferrer has 6 slam SFs (far more than any of those guys), more titles, more weeks in the top 10, etc etc etc.

Homeboy Hotel 02-27-2013 09:11 AM

No they're not better, but lets be honest- it comes down to this:

Ferrer is the consistent, hard working, 'lives up to his seeding, most times' player. Top seed in Unknown 250? = Wins title, 4th seed in slam?= QF/SF

Berdych, Tsonga, Del Potro - they have extremely good days or bad days. You simply cannot predict how well they will play, yet with Ferrer you can mostly.

Tsonga - Beaten top 3 in every slam, incl 2 x RF wins
Berdych - Wimbledon final, incl 2 x RF wins
Del Potro - US Open win, hurt RF where he dislikes it.
Ferrer - 900000 titles in 250/500, never beaten top 3 in slam.

NadalAgassi 02-27-2013 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by President (Post 7239584)
I can understand you saying that about Del Potro (although his USO win is literally the only thing he has over Ferrer, he is much worse in every other career metric), but for Berdych and Tsonga it makes no sense. They have 1 slam final each, Ferrer has none. Ok. But Ferrer has 6 slam SFs (far more than any of those guys), more titles, more weeks in the top 10, etc etc etc.

Nothing Ferrer has achieved equals the value of a slam final IMO. If he had 3 Masters titles as opposed to 1 I would probably give it to him. However he only has 1, and it took him alot longer than Berdych and Tsonga winning theirs to even win that one. A career with a slam final and 1 Masters title > a career with no slam finals and 1 Masters title. Berdych and Tsonga also have more and bigger wins in majors. Ferrer only has 2 really, beating Nadal twice in a hard court slam (beating Murray at the French is no big win). Berdych has beaten Federer twice in fast court majors, and beaten Federer and Djokovic back to back at Wimbledon to make his final appearance there. Tsonga has taken out all of Federer, Djokovic, Murray, and Nadal in a major, and his run of wins to reach his Australian Open final was extremely impressive.

Start da Game 02-27-2013 09:29 AM

let me correct it for everybody.......

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennispro492 (Post 7239408)
whoever has a losing head to head to fediva, is greater than all those who have better records against the diva


NadalAgassi 02-27-2013 09:34 AM

Lets be honest too, the big 4 are worried if they face Berdych, Tsonga, or Del Potro on a hot day in a big match. Well maybe not Berdych for Djokovic and Nadal, and maybe not Djokovic and Murray for Del Potro, but the rest there is definite fear they dont face those guys on a day they are firing on all cylinders. With Ferrer there is no fear, except Murray at the French but Murray at the French thus far knows he will probably lose to anyone in the top 8, and could potentially lose to anyone in the top 15 on a given day anyway.

tennispro492 02-27-2013 09:44 AM

Most of you so far seem to have missed one vital fact- as i posted in my first post, ferrer has leading head to heads against all of those guys, thus he is better than them.


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