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luvforty 02-27-2013 05:39 PM

serve break thru
 
after numerous shadow swings in the living room and bunch of scuff marks on the ceiling for the past couple months, finally found my serve... MY serve.

foot line perpendicular to the baseline, chest to the right post at ready position.

tossing arm straight into the court.. hitting hand continental grip with V right on top of bevel 1.... racket shaft about 45 degrees to the forearm....abbreviated motion to the trophy, with the racket face already addressing the contact point...

racket drop doesn't feel like a drop, more like a counterclockwise rotation... aka external shoulder rotation

laid back wrist on the swing up... lean on the ball and wack the felt off it....well it doesn't feel like a swing up, more like a clockwise rotation. aka ISR

flats hitting 1-2 ft on the back fence.... 45 degree weather with slight head wind.

spin serve, same motion with slight grip change, feels very secure as well.

ball toss is quite low.

so effing easy, zero wasted motion.

with some more work i should be able to put some legs and more core into it, and find better locations to make it a little monster.

sureshs 02-27-2013 07:16 PM

How is the serve outside the living room?

TomT 02-27-2013 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvforty (Post 7240804)
after numerous shadow swings in the living room and bunch of scuff marks on the ceiling for the past couple months, finally found my serve... MY serve.

foot line perpendicular to the baseline, chest to the right post at ready position.

tossing arm straight into the court.. hitting hand continental grip with V right on top of bevel 1.... racket shaft about 45 degrees to the forearm....abbreviated motion to the trophy, with the racket face already addressing the contact point...

racket drop doesn't feel like a drop, more like a counterclockwise rotation... aka external shoulder rotation

laid back wrist on the swing up... lean on the ball and wack the felt off it....well it doesn't feel like a swing up, more like a clockwise rotation. aka ISR

flats hitting 1-2 ft on the back fence.... 45 degree weather with slight head wind.

spin serve, same motion with slight grip change, feels very secure as well.

ball toss is quite low.

so effing easy, zero wasted motion.

with some more work i should be able to put some legs and more core into it, and find better locations to make it a little monster.

Ok, yeah, what you said. However, the epiphany (for me), if I may call it that, regarding the essence of my serve, actually came to me somewhat recently during a time of decreased strength while recovering from a recent bout with a Crohn's disease flare.

For me, regarding my serve (motion or mechanics), it's all about the toss. The recent adjustment that produced the epiphanic realization was: to toss a little farther out front and a little farther away (than I had been doing). That's it. Not complicated. That simple adjustment, wrt and in keeping with my service motion, has resulted in a marked increase in serving speed and accuracy (and this, while I'm still recovering from a recent Crohn's flare and maybe at 1/2 normal strength).

To put this into perspective, what this means (when I'm at full strength) is consistent (ie., ~ 70% + first serves in) serving at around 100 mph (using the current gauge of serving speed). Which, at my current level of competition (~ NTRP 3.0), would be pretty devastating. So, I think that if I can ever get back to full strength then my W/L results will improve and therefore my pseudo NTRP rating will increase.

NLBwell 02-27-2013 08:42 PM

Also, some of the added speed TomT could be because you are weaker you are not trying to force the racket around, but just letting it flow through the stroke.

luvforty 02-28-2013 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomT (Post 7240987)
Ok, yeah, what you said. However, the epiphany (for me), if I may call it that, regarding the essence of my serve, actually came to me somewhat recently during a time of decreased strength while recovering from a recent bout with a Crohn's disease flare.

For me, regarding my serve (motion or mechanics), it's all about the toss. The recent adjustment that produced the epiphanic realization was: to toss a little farther out front and a little farther away (than I had been doing). That's it. Not complicated. That simple adjustment, wrt and in keeping with my service motion, has resulted in a marked increase in serving speed and accuracy (and this, while I'm still recovering from a recent Crohn's flare and maybe at 1/2 normal strength).

To put this into perspective, what this means (when I'm at full strength) is consistent (ie., ~ 70% + first serves in) serving at around 100 mph (using the current gauge of serving speed). Which, at my current level of competition (~ NTRP 3.0), would be pretty devastating. So, I think that if I can ever get back to full strength then my W/L results will improve and therefore my pseudo NTRP rating will increase.

Tom I looked at your serve from the 'grips' thread.... interesting that your ready position, grip, swing path are almost the same to mine.

regarding the 'conti' grip, it's not an exact position, it's a range.... i have my V right in the middle of bevel 1.... so it's not too far from eastern...

if the V is on the edge between bevels 1 and 8, you can put spin, but not much pace on the ball... I use such grip for 2nd serve.

and yes, the toss is definitely into the court.

my old motion had chest CLOSED to the target at ready position and always struggled with ball toss not forward enough... with this new set up chest 45 degrees OPEN (almost the same as yours), toss is 2-3 ft into the court, and I can lean on the ball with body weight.

Relinquis 02-28-2013 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7240943)
How is the serve outside the living room?

well played...

Avles 02-28-2013 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7240943)
How is the serve outside the living room?

I'm pretty sure that "flats hitting 1-2 ft on the back fence...45 degree weather with slight headwind" isn't referring to his living room.

The Meat 02-28-2013 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avles (Post 7241692)
I'm pretty sure that "flats hitting 1-2 ft on the back fence...45 degree weather with slight headwind" isn't referring to his living room.

I have a fence stuck to my living room wall for decoration, is that a problem? :neutral:

luvforty 02-28-2013 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meat (Post 7241701)
I have a fence stuck to my living room wall for decoration, is that a problem? :neutral:

sureshs' wife ain't gonna allow that!

slowfox 02-28-2013 08:16 AM

Just outta curiosity, how far back behind the baseline is your fence? Whenever folks reference their serves hitting the fence at a certain height, they rarely mention the distance to the fence. Just wondering cuz when I practice my serve (and it's a decent one), I don't hit the fence at all... :(

sureshs 02-28-2013 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvforty (Post 7241725)
sureshs' wife ain't gonna allow that!

One day I plan to own an estate with my own red-clay court. Till then, I am using my villa in Monte Carlo and playing at the club next door.

luvforty 02-28-2013 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowfox (Post 7241805)
Just outta curiosity, how far back behind the baseline is your fence? Whenever folks reference their serves hitting the fence at a certain height, they rarely mention the distance to the fence. Just wondering cuz when I practice my serve (and it's a decent one), I don't hit the fence at all... :(

typical public court.

if TomT a 65 yo 3.0 can 1-hop to the fence.... most grown men should be able to...

it's the technique.... need to understand external/internal shoulder rotation (INSTEAD OF PRONATION)...

use ESR/ISR to whack some wild bushes and feel the power, then take that motion up top to hit a ball.

LeeD 02-28-2013 08:51 AM

Slowfox....
Typical distance is 21', or just over NINE tennis rackets of 27".
And the typical white line on that backboard is around 38" at our courts in California.

WildVolley 02-28-2013 09:17 AM

I'm visualizing something like the Almagro serve. It is a nice simple model.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eFRf5kO_dI

luvforty 02-28-2013 03:37 PM

nico's is nice... sam querrey's motion is also quite simple.

it's interesting that with ESR/ISR, the racket drop/swing up feel like misnomers.... the 2 parts feel more like a door opening and a door closing.

LeeD 02-28-2013 03:41 PM

Nico has a nice serve.
Moving the front foot during the motion is a license for footfault calls, and even though the vid angle doesn't show it, his shrug of his shoulders just before he starts his motion looks very girly.

Relinquis 02-28-2013 05:06 PM

i feel i don't follow through enough on my serves... might be robbing me of speed.

watungga 02-28-2013 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomT (Post 7240987)
........

For me, regarding my serve (motion or mechanics), it's all about the toss. The recent adjustment that produced the epiphanic realization was: to toss a little farther out front and a little farther away (than I had been doing). That's it. Not complicated. That simple adjustment, wrt and in keeping with my service motion, has resulted in a marked increase in serving speed and accuracy (and this, while I'm still recovering from a recent Crohn's flare and maybe at 1/2 normal strength).

...........

Eggxactly my kind of post about to make here.

It's all about that the said toss.

Only concern here is, you gotta be ready/inspired/confident/All-in/no-backout-feelings, when you intend to toss said ball to more out front. Coz there's only 1 set of motion to hit that far out front. If you modify your stance or swing, which at the point that you doubt about getting it in, and trying to slap the ball making sure it goes in, expect that the result will not be to your liking.

luvforty 03-01-2013 05:15 AM

31F this morning, no wind.... was able to hit flat 1.5 feet up the fence on the T shots and 0.5 ft up the fence on the wide one (ad court).

forget about pronation.... for the flats, the strings are always square to the swing path of the racket head.

arche3 03-01-2013 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvforty (Post 7243651)
31F this morning, no wind.... was able to hit flat 1.5 feet up the fence on the T shots and 0.5 ft up the fence on the wide one (ad court).

forget about pronation.... for the flats, the strings are always square to the swing path of the racket head.

Maybe for a rec guy like you its pan cake from trophy. Pros not so much. They pronate. The reason being it gets the racket head going faster. The wrist is not in the way of the racket handle as it accelerates thru contact. So you can have more racket head speed thru the serve. Please go take some tennis lessons.


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