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-   -   How would you react to this request? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=456177)

Cindysphinx 02-28-2013 01:22 PM

How would you react to this request?
 
I am co-captaining a ladies 40+ team. We started off with a full roster, including five singles players.

Registration fees in our league are about $40. Matches cost $18 each. Players pre-pay for four matches when they register. When the season ends, those who played more than four matches get a bill; those who played less get a refund.

Once the season schedule was released, one singles player dropped off the team because it conflicted with work.

Another singles player got injured.

Another singles player's husband started traveling a lot and she can't get a sitter.

That leaves us with two die-hard singles players who will each probably play nine matches. Without them, we would be defaulting courts at $36 a pop (default cost spread among all players on the team). Trouble is, they hadn't anticipated racking up court fees of $18 x 9.

My co-captain and I feel badly that they are paying so much for being willing to play to avoid defaults. We are looking for a way to make it up to them. We could simply pay some of their court costs, but then again, we're not made of money either and have our own court costs to pay.

Here's the idea I want to run past you folks: When it comes time for the end-of-season reconciliation, some folks will be owed a refund. We captains could suggest that players voluntarily donate some of their refund to offset the court costs of these two singles players. After all, the reason these two ladies are playing so much is because other people are not available or won't play singles.

If you were one of those players, how would you feel about this request? Would you kick in a few bucks, or would you consider the request inappropriate?

dizzlmcwizzl 02-28-2013 01:34 PM

first off it is only money so I would not mind .... but there are many others that would disagree.


However, putting an e-mail like that out to the squad might encourage a couple of your other players to make singles a go.

spot 02-28-2013 01:45 PM

Wow. In atlanta we don't pay per match fees. All that is collected up front and the team pays them equally. But that is a conversation for before the season- not now.

It does seem very extreme to have the singles pay almost $200 in court fees because no one else wants to play doubles. I'd say that it would be very tricky for the players who get squashed on playtime to be the ones to pay that. I'd say that pick the number you want to supplement and work it out equally among the players. Say its $10 per person. The people getting the refund would have it come out of that money. The others would have to pay $10 or else volunteer to play singles.

OHBH 02-28-2013 01:45 PM

The two singles get five extra matches and pay for five extra matches. Seems fair to me.

Why does the rest of the team have to eat the cost if they don't play? If you know they can't play all matches in advance, why can't you notify your opponents and book two fewer courts for those matches?

JoelDali 02-28-2013 01:50 PM

Suresh and I will GOAT them at the end of the season.

OrangePower 02-28-2013 02:11 PM

I think you ask the singles players the question: "Ideally, how many matches would you want to play". And of course the expectation is that they will answer honestly.

If they say "as many as possible", or similar, then they should of course pay for every match they play.

But on the other hand if their preference is to say only play 6 at most, and they are only going to play more because of pressure from the team to avoid defaults, then I would ask them to pay for 6, and then do as you suggest - ask the others on the team who are due refunds to consider chipping in. I would not have a problem myself chipping in under these circumstances.

For future seasons, I would set the expectation that any refunds of the up-front fees for 4 matches are completely at the discretion of the captain, as long as the captain guarantees that everyone who makes themselves available will get 4 matches.

Topaz 02-28-2013 02:22 PM

I really wish MOCO would not handle fees this way. Its such a headache for captains to do all the refund/owing at the end of the season, and my understanding is that captains end up putting a lot up front themselves. I'm still waiting on a refund from last fall because my schedule didn't allow the four prepaid matches.

I like your idea of bring it up...like someone else said, it may inspire someone else to step and play some singles! But honestly, I can also see people say (quite rightfully) that they shouldn't have to pay for other peoples' matches. Honestly, I wouldn't want to...I'm strapped myself and have enough issue budgeting my own tennis.

Any hope to just adding some singles players?

J011yroger 02-28-2013 02:35 PM

You play, you pay. You don't play, you don't pay.

This is recreational, you know, for fun. Fun costs money.

The singles players aren't heroic characters sacrificing their time for those less fortunate. They are playing a tennis match.

If someone asked me for money to reimburse someone who played more matches than I did, I would tell them to go poop in their hat.

J

Cindysphinx 02-28-2013 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topaz (Post 7242555)
I really wish MOCO would not handle fees this way. Its such a headache for captains to do all the refund/owing at the end of the season, and my understanding is that captains end up putting a lot up front themselves. I'm still waiting on a refund from last fall because my schedule didn't allow the four prepaid matches.

I like your idea of bring it up...like someone else said, it may inspire someone else to step and play some singles! But honestly, I can also see people say (quite rightfully) that they shouldn't have to pay for other peoples' matches. Honestly, I wouldn't want to...I'm strapped myself and have enough issue budgeting my own tennis.

Any hope to just adding some singles players?

Nah, it is too late to add anyone. And you know how hard it is to find singles players over age 40.

Regarding the court fees system we have here. . . . Players hate it, captains love it. It is ridiculous to ask captains to front over $1000 and then collect it up later. That really discouraged people from captaining.

What I don't care for is Virginia's system of collecting money at every match from every player. That s a huge pain in the behind for captains.

Cindysphinx 02-28-2013 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OHBH (Post 7242458)
The two singles get five extra matches and pay for five extra matches. Seems fair to me.

Why does the rest of the team have to eat the cost if they don't play? If you know they can't play all matches in advance, why can't you notify your opponents and book two fewer courts for those matches?

The league pays for blocks of indoor courts at the beginning of the season. If teams do not use their courts, they must still pay for them because te league lready bought them.

Angle Queen 02-28-2013 02:52 PM

Quick Question before I answer/give my opinion.

Do the doubles players also pay $18 each per match (for $36 per court) or is the "court" fee of $18 divided by the both them?

Cindysphinx 02-28-2013 03:00 PM

Doubles payers also pay $18 per match per person. So $72 per court.

If you default a court, you owe all of the costs for that court for all players. That is $36 for defaulting singles and $72 for defaulting doubles.

Our policy is that a player who causes a default must pay the entire cost by herself.

If we default a court because we didn't ave enough available payers, we share the cost as a team.

Angle Queen 02-28-2013 03:34 PM

The way I see it, (almost) everyone on the team is on the hook for at least another $18. I'd put it to them this way:

(A) you can play a singles match and pay the $18 OR
(B) you can "hire" someone else to play it for you (and pay "their" $18 ) OR
(C) accept that there will be some "team" defaults, which must also be divided up monetarily...AND you've lost the ability, as a team, to potentially win that "line" -- making winning the "match" that much more difficult.

For me personally, I'd probably choose these options in the order I've presented them, none of which would bother me. It's part of being part of a TEAM.

Dave M 02-28-2013 03:41 PM

Are league matches always that expensive over there?Who gets the money and what do they do with it?
Thinking about it is it paid to your area tennis ass?

Overdrive 02-28-2013 04:09 PM

See, this is why I'm not playing league tennis. Have to pay for matches that you aren't even going to play and too much drama.

Being a nomadic singles player in tournaments sounds a lot better. :)

sureshs 02-28-2013 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave M (Post 7242697)
Are league matches always that expensive over there?Who gets the money and what do they do with it?
Thinking about it is it paid to your area tennis ass?

hehehe.............

No, Cindy gets the money.

oops.........

Cindysphinx 02-28-2013 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave M (Post 7242697)
Are league matches always that expensive over there?Who gets the money and what do they do with it?
Thinking about it is it paid to your area tennis ass?

We (MD near DC) have no public courts available for league play. We have a large league. We play almost all league matches indoors. The league purchases unusued court time from county indoor facilities and also from swanky private clubs; the $18 pays for court time.

The $18 is actually a blended rate. The league did not want to charge per court, as it would make singles twice as expensive as doubles. So it is $18 per person per two-hour timed match.

If we did not do it this way, we would have a very short and weather-interrupted season in the warmer months and nothing in the winter. Because we are able to purchase this huge amount of indoor time, we have year-round league tennis in every conceivable format.

JoelDali 02-28-2013 04:46 PM

In NYC we pay $38 per match for USTA GOATed Glory(tm).

It's actually going up to $42 this year.

Good times.

Mike Y 02-28-2013 05:39 PM

My god you guys pay a lot to play matches. All we have is a $26 flat fee to join a team, then we have to pay whatever fee it is to play matches at our home facility, but for the large majority of facilities that I am aware of in my area, there are no extra fees for court time other than the flat membership fee, which we have already paid in most cases. After hearing what other people pay, I consider myself lucky to be playing tennis in my area.

Anyway, players should pay whatever the costs are to play. Some may want to play 9 singles matches and will pay the appropriate amount. If they don't want to pay/play that much, they can decline. Even if they are the designated singles players, you can't force them to play every match. Someone else can step up and play singles if need be if the team doesn't want to pay the default cost.

dcdoorknob 02-28-2013 05:50 PM

Back to the original question...

I wouldn't be offended or anything at being asked. I'm not sure if I'd actually donate or not (more likely I would volunteer to play some singles myself during the season instead), but I don't know why people should be offended at being asked. They're free to decline if they wish.


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