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-   -   How come Ferrer can beat Berdych easily but Federer can't beat him at all these days? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=456344)

tennispro492 03-02-2013 03:41 AM

How come Ferrer can beat Berdych easily but Federer can't beat him at all these days?
 
Federer is obviously good at footwork/movement and returning too, so why does daveed have the ability to destroy Berd and Fed can't at all?

Start da Game 03-02-2013 03:46 AM

tennis is 90% mental.......berdych doesn't like divas.......his enmity with fediva gets the best out of him.......

similarly federer isn't comfortable with anybody who doesn't bend over for him......that hits his ego and derails his game.......his ***** think he "did not show up".......

ark_28 03-02-2013 03:47 AM

It's a consistency issue! Ferrer is good at soaking up pace despite not having too many outright weapons of his own! It actually means it's tough for a Berdych or a Del Potro to hit through Ferrer such is his consistency both of speed and his low error rate!

Fed's movement while still good is an aggressive mover and striker and always tends to play more attacking v attacking players it means his margins or error are less so a bad day it can just get away with him but if he's seeing it well and all is on he can still beat these guys but Ferrer would probably beat a Berdych type player more consistently as this point IMO

Relinquis 03-02-2013 05:26 AM

Well Federer has match points and only scored 3 fewer points than Berdych during the match. So it was close. Still, Ferrer owns Berdych pretty badly, so still a valid question.

I think you have to be tougher mentally to beat Ferrer than to beat Federer. Ferrer puts more pressure on your mind, Federer puts more pressure on your actual physical tennis.

Federer plays lower % tennis than Ferrer. Ferrer forces the mistake from Berdych, exposes holes in his game. Puts a lot of mental pressure on the opponent to hit several winners a point. Also, Federer comes in more, so can be passed more, whereas against Ferrer Berdych has few weapons because neither player comes in*.

I'm not sure, but Ferrer could be a step faster than Federer at the moment when running down balls after being out of position, even though Federer has better anticipation imo. Can't prove this, but seems to me to be the case.

Very interestign question... i guess i should re-watch a ferrer vs. berdych match to see how he is doing it.


* Contrast with Davydenko, who comes in to the baseline a bit and creates angles on nearly every point, taking the ball on the rise and taking time away from Ferrer, opening up the court. Berdych doesn't do this.

always_crosscourt 03-02-2013 05:51 AM

Every time Berdych or Del Potro face Ferrer, the match is entirely on their racket then, eh? All Ferrer can do is hope they're having a bad day... Ferrer doesn't actually have any say in the match - it's Berdych Vs Berdych or Del-Potro Vs Del-Potro, right?

I wonder why they both always have bad days against Ferrer?

axel89 03-02-2013 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by always_crosscourt (Post 7245932)
Every time Berdych or Del Potro face Ferrer, the match is entirely on their racket then, eh? All Ferrer can do is hope they're having a bad day... Ferrer doesn't actually have any say in the match - it's Berdych Vs Berdych or Del-Potro Vs Del-Potro, right?

I wonder why they both always have bad days against Ferrer?

ferrer has better defense than federer

Sentinel 03-02-2013 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Start da Game (Post 7245839)
tennis is 90% mental.......berdych doesn't like divas.......his enmity with fediva gets the best out of him.......

similarly federer isn't comfortable with anybody who doesn't bend over for him......that hits his ego and derails his game.......his ***** think he "did not show up".......

IIRC Fred's losses to Berdie started piling up only in the last couple years. Prior to that Fed had a good winning record.

Also, i don't think Ferrer bends over for him but not for others. You logic has enough holes in it to empty an ocean :)

stringertom 03-02-2013 07:29 AM

It's RPS time...

Berdych is rock

Ferrer is paper

Federer is scissors

Berdych is more "linear" a player and doesn't hit as many creative angled or spin shots that get Ferrer out of position. Ferrer is able to make him hit that one more shot to win the point and that wears Berd down, physically and mentally.
Ergo, paper covers rock.

Berdych is bigger and rangier than Ferrer and gets to many shots Federer uses to put away or set up for the putaway vs Ferrer. Ergo, rock crushes scissors but scissors cut paper.

Rexking 03-02-2013 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stringertom (Post 7246139)
It's RPS time...

Berdych is rock

Ferrer is paper

Federer is scissors

Berdych is more "linear" a player and doesn't hit as many creative angled or spin shots that get Ferrer out of position. Ferrer is able to make him hit that one more shot to win the point and that wears Berd down, physically and mentally.
Ergo, paper covers rock.

Berdych is bigger and rangier than Ferrer and gets to many shots Federer uses to put away or set up for the putaway vs Ferrer. Ergo, rock crushes scissors but scissors cut paper.

A very good analogy. Question is what was Federer in his prime? The Iron Fist?

What about when Nadal faces Djokovic?

SassyRamirez 03-02-2013 08:04 AM

Federer just doesn't defend as well as he used to, footspeed is slower and footwork isn't as intricate. Also his shots don't penetrate through the court like they used to.

serengetisunset 03-02-2013 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Start da Game (Post 7245839)
tennis is 90% mental.......berdych doesn't like divas.......his enmity with fediva gets the best out of him.......

similarly federer isn't comfortable with anybody who doesn't bend over for him......that hits his ego and derails his game.......his ***** think he "did not show up".......

You could be right.

zagor 03-02-2013 08:19 AM

Better ROS, defense and fitness.

cork_screw 03-02-2013 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennispro492 (Post 7245834)
Federer is obviously good at footwork/movement and returning too, so why does daveed have the ability to destroy Berd and Fed can't at all?

Look at the information and just think about it. When you say that ferrer beats berdych a bunch of times, recently ("at all these days") and federer can't well.... Berdych and Ferrer have only played 3 times in the past 3 years and ferrer is just 2-1. As opposed to fed and berdych who've played 8 times in the same 3 years. How can you compare those stats? Eghhh...

Start da Game 03-02-2013 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sentinel (Post 7245940)
IIRC Fred's losses to Berdie started piling up only in the last couple years. Prior to that Fed had a good winning record.

Also, i don't think Ferrer bends over for him but not for others. You logic has enough holes in it to empty an ocean :)

it all started in 2010.......berd got ****ed off with that extremely cocky remarks of fed after that defeat in wimbledon 2010 at the hands of berd.......that bad back excuse and other unnecessary stuff he said about berdych.......that really raged berdych for the first time and ever since then he seems as if he is playing tennis just to collect victories against fed.......so my logic is just fine.......

Quote:

Originally Posted by serengetisunset (Post 7246222)
You could be right.

yes, the moment someone stands up and fights, he is mentally put off and his game goes awry.......playing in a weak era for too long has turned him into a sort of a mental chump.......

World Beater 03-02-2013 10:14 AM

Berdych returns federer's 2nd serve really well.

Federer also for some reason tries to outhit berdych sometimes. I remember at the usopen federer just tried to bash from the baseline and got blown out - his movement and defense just isnt that good anymore.

Berdych has also become much tougher mentally.

Federer has just declined overall.

Love all 03-02-2013 10:35 AM

Its Federer's tendency to make an unforced error earlier than his opponent or hit midcourt sitters that eventually pull him out of the rally.

helloworld 03-02-2013 10:44 AM

Ferrer beats Berdych by consistency. Federer on the other hand tries to overpower Berdych, but got blown out of the court by the bigger man.

NadalAgassi 03-02-2013 10:58 AM

Federer does not always lose to Berdych. They roughly split their matches in the last few years. Their biggest match was the Madrid final last year where Federer denied his desperately desired 2nd Masters title.

NEW_BORN 03-02-2013 01:46 PM

It's a confidence issue as well a match-up issue.

Fed has 3 major weaknesses right now:
1 - He's not clutch enough on the big points, has no bread and butter play to rely on, too much variety is not a good thing against the elite players.
2 - He's not showing enough fight within a match when he's behind, attitude and body language is mostly negative, must display more outward passion and grit.
3 - He can no longer rely on his offense to offset his decline in defense, especially on the forehand side. Must reduce errors and work on more explosiveness on the forehand side.

always_crosscourt 03-02-2013 02:11 PM

Because Ferrer is better than Federer


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