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-   -   New Prince Graphite/Summer (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=456396)

goherd27 03-02-2013 02:02 PM

New Prince Graphite/Summer
 
I was dropping off a couple of my POGs today to be strung and the shop owner told me they expected a new Prince Graphite this summer. He indicated the local Prince rep had been in and said that it would be a return to grommets and a new cosmetic.

Anyone else heard this or any other talk on specs?

v-verb 03-02-2013 02:18 PM

That would be great! Would love to see a 1" extended come back as well.

themitchmann 03-02-2013 03:42 PM

Last I heard, Prince pushed the release of all of their new product to Fall.

purple-n-gold 03-02-2013 04:17 PM

Yep, heard from a very good source that Prince is updating and releasing a new POG.

MAXXply 03-02-2013 04:26 PM

I can't see how Prince can markedly improve on the current TW POG except for an extra gram or two of weight in the handle and a less hollow feel. I suppose we should fear the worst - that it'll be a horrible cosmetic update that completely obliterates the classic simplicity of the current model. Maybe it's time we stocked up on the old one? Manufacturers only ever seem to polarise longtime users with each new iteration.

jonestim 03-02-2013 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAXXply (Post 7247125)
I can't see how Prince can markedly improve on the current TW POG except for an extra gram or two of weight in the handle and a less hollow feel. I suppose we should fear the worst - that it'll be a horrible cosmetic update that completely obliterates the classic simplicity of the current model. Maybe it's time we stocked up on the old one? Manufacturers only ever seem to polarise longtime users with each new iteration.

I would like a lower flex. I have been enjoying my Graphite Pro 90s more than my POG 90s. I have both 4 stripe and Straight Shaft. Straight Shaft has a bit more hollow feel. 4 stripe is good, but not nearly as buttery as the Graphite Pro.

ttwarrior1 03-02-2013 09:05 PM

http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/dol...ing-a-comeback

racket with 30 percent more spin??? Same as the new wilson's perhaps?

Alex78 03-02-2013 11:55 PM

Hmm, I suppose the "30 percent more spin" claim is connected to the EXO frames, but maybe they will also offer a 16/16 pattern in a traditional frame. Or does anyone have precise info on this yet?
Somewhere here I think I read that Prince plans to introduce a new version of the Diablo, that would be very interesting as well.

themitchmann 03-03-2013 03:12 AM

ESP Tour is an open pattern frame. It's been discussed since last summer (before the Steam). It's an O Port frame.

Automatix 03-03-2013 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v-verb (Post 7246857)
That would be great! Would love to see a 1" extended come back as well.

Yeah, I'm on the +1" bandwagon as well.

There are literally no 28 inch new players frames on the market today (except for custom options such as Angell or Bosworth). :-?


Quote:

Originally Posted by MAXXply (Post 7247125)
I can't see how Prince can markedly improve on the current TW POG except for an extra gram or two of weight in the handle and a less hollow feel.

IMHO all it would take is go back to foam filled POGs. The ones TW is selling are hollow while the old ones were foam filled and advertised as such.


v-verb 03-03-2013 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Automatix (Post 7247876)
Yeah, I'm on the +1" bandwagon as well.

There are literally no 28 inch new players frames on the market today (except for custom options such as Angell or Bosworth). :-?


IMHO all it would take is go back to foam filled POGs. The ones TW is selling are hollow while the old ones were foam filled and advertised as such.


Hey Automatix!

I picked up a Chang Titanium Mid last week, will hit with it today - have another Titanium mid coming next week as well as a Chang Graphite OS.

I do love the extended sticks. Hit with RipSticks (29") and a ThunderBolt (28.5") for years with no issue until last year when I put RPM Team in my RipStick at 60 lbs and screwed my wrist.

So I figure the 28" will be easier on my wrist and arm but still give me some more pop and spin. We'll see how that goes.

I'm on the lookout for a Prince Graphite Longbody as I think they may be foam filled?

Cheers

Automatix 03-03-2013 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v-verb (Post 7247891)
I'm on the lookout for a Prince Graphite Longbody as I think they may be foam filled?

To my knowledge the LBs sold by TW recently were also hollow.

P.S.: Length is only one spec. Balance, swingweight, flex. It all counts. I've played with numerous extended racquets and while some were real logs to swing, others were lighter than the specs would indicate. It doesn't come down to length alone. You have to take all specs into account.

v-verb 03-03-2013 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Automatix (Post 7247944)
To my knowledge the LBs sold by TW recently were also hollow.

P.S.: Length is only one spec. Balance, swingweight, flex. It all counts. I've played with numerous extended racquets and while some were real logs to swing, others were lighter than the specs would indicate. It doesn't come down to length alone. You have to take all specs into account.

Thanks - didn't know that! Having only played the RipStick and TBolt I have to say the Rip is amazing on serve and also if you hit the sweetspot. Otherwise very challenging with the mono shaft. The TBolt is really solid feeling on impact, can't get it dialed in on serve but everything else is wonderful.

Still love the sticks in my sig but if I can play long racquets without pain then I'll probably do that. I'm thinking that the Changs may be the ticket but we'll see.

So Automatix, please share your fave long racquets?

Cheers

Automatix 03-03-2013 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v-verb (Post 7247972)
So Automatix, please share your fave long racquets?

Anything >27 inches or 28 inches exclusively? I've owned some racquets and my memory can fail on me when it comes to details.

El Diablo 03-03-2013 05:28 AM

Nostalgia (re-release an old product) is a way to seem like you're putting out new products without making any actual capital investment in developing new products. Prince fans should be discouraged by this possibility.

v-verb 03-03-2013 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Automatix (Post 7247982)
Anything >27 inches or 28 inches exclusively? I've owned some racquets and my memory can fail on me when it comes to details.

Anything over 27" please - and thanks Automatix!

v-verb 03-03-2013 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Diablo (Post 7247983)
Nostalgia (re-release an old product) is a way to seem like you're putting out new products without making any actual capital investment in developing new products. Prince fans should be discouraged by this possibility.

Absolutely disagree. It's nice that they're expanding their range and having to source grommets for out of production racquets is a pain.

Donnay makes great classic graphite style frames. Would be nice for Prince to add POG like frames back into the mix

El Diablo 03-03-2013 06:30 AM

^^ I don't think it's done Donnay any good either. Donnay brought in a Wilson bigshot (John Embree) to handle sales and marketing in 2011, I understand he had left a year later to do other things, so I'm not sure it's going all that well there. Retro is not usually an effective business plan.

Automatix 03-03-2013 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v-verb (Post 7247994)
Anything over 27" please - and thanks Automatix!

Ouch... that's a long list. I'll probably skip some due to memory failure but here we go.

I'll start from the Prince Graphite Longbody since this is the frame we'd like to see again. Owned for a couple of weeks before selling it back to the original owner (he sold it, but after a while begged me to sell it back to him).

Very headlight, little to none mass in the hoop, soft but not a noodle.
Good access to spin, a bit tougher to handle when going for a flat shot. With some tweaking I could see switching to this racquet. However back then I preferred 18x20 stringpattern frames so after I got an opportunity to sell it for the same price I bought it I didn't really think of buying a new one and playing with lead and silicone to alter it to my liking.

Another frame that I remember was the Head i.Prestige Mid XL (27.75 inches long). One of those racquets which were just too demanding for me. While it was a true blast to serve with this baby I just couldn't hit a clean backhand to save my life. I thought it's a matter of time and adjustment but it wasn't... but I still remember what a joy it was to rip a nice flat one down the T with it.

Around the time I've started to appreciate open string pattern racquets I've been playing with Kneissl Red Stars aka yellow stripe (ca 2007 edition, 27.5 inches long). They were fantastic frames. Quality finish, sturdy, powerful and very comfortable. The problem was I couldn't time them as much as I wanted to. They were very string sensitive and really shined with the factory string (Kneissl Polytech). They were simply marvellous when playing in defence from the baseline however I couldn't transit from defence to offence if you know what I mean.

Wilson ProStaff Classic 6.1 Stretch 95 (28 inches long). A stiffer, crisper, classic Wilson Pro Staff feel. Also very powerful frames despite the 18x20 string pattern. Bought them as an alternative to my Yonex Pro RD 70 Long 95s (saving them for last). Never could find the groove with these also while I didn't find them uncomfortable (68RA or something in the upper 60s) I'm not really a fan of the ol' Wilson feel. I prefer the softer, smother response of Prestige like frames.

A recent talk about Babolat racquets reminded me of a very brief encounter with a Babolat Pure Control Zylon Plus (27,5 inches long). It was a very, very short hit and I've never owned one but this model really impressed me. For the weight it was plenty stable, it had easy access to power and spin without sacrificing control. I have to say that in this "weight class" it was the best +0.5inch or longer racquet I've hit with. It outperformed the Red Star in terms of spin and control, it was also more manoeuvrable.

And last but not least my current frames - Yonex Pro RD 70 Long 95 (28 inches long). I haven't seen anything which would be even slightly similar to this model. This frame screams specific. 16-19mm beam (16mm at the tip), a 16x17 (no typo, 17 crosses) in a 95 square inch size head. What can I say, this racquet is a spin monster. The fewer crosses:mains ratio design is something which can be treated as a prelude to the Wilson Spin Effect (16x15 string pattern) and the Prince ESP (16x16 string pattern). And it really works. Great feel, ball pocketing, not power deficient but you really have to give it all to achieve decent depth on your shots. This frame is like a scalpel however it is unstable at the hoop, while it is a common problem with headlight 28 inch long racquets in this model the beam design (taper down up to the tip) enhances the problem. Although it is supposed to have some "tech" called anti-twist cross section in the hoop it doesn't really help. It can be easily fixed with some lead ranging from 10 to 2 o'clock however this increases the already high swingweight and shifts the balance towards the head. I love this model even with the weaknesses mentioned and the fact it is by far too demanding for me... but heck, I play for fun not for "glory".

I've played with and owned many more extended length frames including pro stocks but the above come to mind when I reminiscent my younger tennis days.

v-verb 03-03-2013 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Diablo (Post 7248047)
^^ I don't think it's done Donnay any good either. Donnay brought in a Wilson bigshot (John Embree) to handle sales and marketing in 2011, I understand he had left a year later to do other things, so I'm not sure it's going all that well there. Retro is not usually an effective business plan.

El Diablo

You're probably right but I'm hoping it isn't so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Automatix (Post 7248130)
Ouch... that's a long list. I'll probably skip some due to memory failure but here we go.

I'll start from the Prince Graphite Longbody since this is the frame we'd like to see again. Owned for a couple of weeks before selling it back to the original owner (he sold it, but after a while begged me to sell it back to him).

Very headlight, little to none mass in the hoop, soft but not a noodle.
Good access to spin, a bit tougher to handle when going for a flat shot. With some tweaking I could see switching to this racquet. However back then I preferred 18x20 stringpattern frames so after I got an opportunity to sell it for the same price I bought it I didn't really think of buying a new one and playing with lead and silicone to alter it to my liking.

Another frame that I remember was the Head i.Prestige Mid XL (27.75 inches long). One of those racquets which were just too demanding for me. While it was a true blast to serve with this baby I just couldn't hit a clean backhand to save my life. I thought it's a matter of time and adjustment but it wasn't... but I still remember what a joy it was to rip a nice flat one down the T with it.

Around the time I've started to appreciate open string pattern racquets I've been playing with Kneissl Red Stars aka yellow stripe (ca 2007 edition, 27.5 inches long). They were fantastic frames. Quality finish, sturdy, powerful and very comfortable. The problem was I couldn't time them as much as I wanted to. They were very string sensitive and really shined with the factory string (Kneissl Polytech). They were simply marvellous when playing in defence from the baseline however I couldn't transit from defence to offence if you know what I mean.

Wilson ProStaff Classic 6.1 Stretch 95 (28 inches long). A stiffer, crisper, classic Wilson Pro Staff feel. Also very powerful frames despite the 18x20 string pattern. Bought them as an alternative to my Yonex Pro RD 70 Long 95s (saving them for last). Never could find the groove with these also while I didn't find them uncomfortable (68RA or something in the upper 60s) I'm not really a fan of the ol' Wilson feel. I prefer the softer, smother response of Prestige like frames.

A recent talk about Babolat racquets reminded me of a very brief encounter with a Babolat Pure Control Zylon Plus (27,5 inches long). It was a very, very short hit and I've never owned one but this model really impressed me. For the weight it was plenty stable, it had easy access to power and spin without sacrificing control. I have to say that in this "weight class" it was the best +0.5inch or longer racquet I've hit with. It outperformed the Red Star in terms of spin and control, it was also more manoeuvrable.

And last but not least my current frames - Yonex Pro RD 70 Long 95 (28 inches long). I haven't seen anything which would be even slightly similar to this model. This frame screams specific. 16-19mm beam (16mm at the tip), a 16x17 (no typo, 17 crosses) in a 95 square inch size head. What can I say, this racquet is a spin monster. The fewer crosses:mains ratio design is something which can be treated as a prelude to the Wilson Spin Effect (16x15 string pattern) and the Prince ESP (16x16 string pattern). And it really works. Great feel, ball pocketing, not power deficient but you really have to give it all to achieve decent depth on your shots. This frame is like a scalpel however it is unstable at the hoop, while it is a common problem with headlight 28 inch long racquets in this model the beam design (taper down up to the tip) enhances the problem. Although it is supposed to have some "tech" called anti-twist cross section in the hoop it doesn't really help. It can be easily fixed with some lead ranging from 10 to 2 o'clock however this increases the already high swingweight and shifts the balance towards the head. I love this model even with the weaknesses mentioned and the fact it is by far too demanding for me... but heck, I play for fun not for "glory".

I've played with and owned many more extended length frames including pro stocks but the above come to mind when I reminiscent my younger tennis days.


Automatix

Thanks for the reply! I'll report on the Changs but will try to locate the Yonex and Bab models you mentioned. The Kneissl sounds nice but demanding and although I love my 18 x 20 Donnay X-Plat, I'm more a fan of open string patterns so that leaves the Wilson out

Cheers and thanks again!


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