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-   -   Are Nadal's balls the heaviest in history? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=456457)

sureshs 03-03-2013 08:22 AM

Are Nadal's balls the heaviest in history?
 
Watching Nadal-Ferrer yesterday, I could not help thinking that when pace and spin are taken together to define what is a heavy ball, Nadal might have the heaviest balls in tennis history.

What do you guys think?

Power Player 03-03-2013 08:35 AM

I would say yes. A pro who has played on the tour against about everyone would be a better source of opinion though.

Here is the gem you want to look for to really see how hard Nadal hits. Try and look out for a match in which he plays a lower ranked guy who has never played him before. I saw one a couple years back in either IW or the USO.

Anyway, the entire first set was just the guy trying to adjust to the ball. After that, he played better (still got crushed), but it was really interesting to see. He clearly had never seen a ball like that.

Nostradamus 03-03-2013 08:53 AM

I don't think it was ball heaviness at all. Ferrer is just afraid of Nadal. If it is so heavy then why doesn't Novak have any problem with it ?

Cup8489 03-03-2013 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nostradamus (Post 7248354)
I don't think it was ball heaviness at all. Ferrer is just afraid of Nadal. If it is so heavy then why doesn't Novak have any problem with it ?

33 meetings against Rafa? LOL.

Clarky21 03-03-2013 09:01 AM

Thread title made me :lol:

GoaLaSSo 03-03-2013 09:03 AM

His forehand probably is. I haven't seen anyone else who can hit shots as fast as he can while still having a loopy trajectory.

gsharma 03-03-2013 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nostradamus (Post 7248354)
I don't think it was ball heaviness at all. Ferrer is just afraid of Nadal. If it is so heavy then why doesn't Novak have any problem with it ?

Djokovic is taller and is able to take Nadal's shots on the rise easily. I watched the highlights of last night's match. It seems that Ferrer made a lot of errors taking the ball on the rise at crucial junctures.

DropShotArtist 03-03-2013 09:11 AM

PED use would suggest otherwise.

ledwix 03-03-2013 09:37 AM

Just add up average rotational kinetic energy and translational kinetic energy of the ball from Nadal. On the forehand it is probably the most, but if we are not using any data from other players it is speculation.

always_crosscourt 03-03-2013 12:20 PM

Stupid thread title aside, I doubt Nadal hits the most topspin of anyone right now on his forehand, let alone combining his forehand and topspin backhand to get an average of the heaviness of his groundstrokes.

There simply isn't enough data on all of the players on the tour. So far I have seen RPM data only on Djokovic, Federer, Murray and Nadal. And that's only forehands.

Congrats, that's a sample size of... 4? And people extrapolate that to say Nadal hits the most topspin of all time. The top 4 aren't everyone. Other players besides the top-4, specifically the clay specialists may hit more RPM's on their forehands, in particular I reckon Andreev who is absolutely violent with his forehand, hits more RPM's than Nadal's forehand. Other players can also be significantly more jacked than feeble frickin' Nadal to fvcking blast the strings upwards through contact.

And on backhands, most 1hbh's, (especially Almagro, Gasquet, Wawrinka and Volandri) will get significantly more topspin on their backhands than Nadal does on his. Gulbis also likely has more topspin RPM's on his backhand.

Ironwood 03-03-2013 12:28 PM

Here's a piece on Nadal's forehand rpms I recalled from last year....but he pays a price for it!



http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&...yhIXfyexGt5ANA

Sid_Vicious 03-03-2013 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Power Player (Post 7248313)
I would say yes. A pro who has played on the tour against about everyone would be a better source of opinion though.

Here is the gem you want to look for to really see how hard Nadal hits. Try and look out for a match in which he plays a lower ranked guy who has never played him before. I saw one a couple years back in either IW or the USO.

Anyway, the entire first set was just the guy trying to adjust to the ball. After that, he played better (still got crushed), but it was really interesting to see. He clearly had never seen a ball like that.

With respect, I don't think this argument establishes that Nadal hits the heaviest ball on tour. Nadal is not the only top player who ravages lower ranked guys who have never played him before. I have seen numerous lower ranked players fail to adjust against Federer. I remember watching Federer play Ivo Minar at the 2005 US Open. Federer won 6-1 6-1 6-1 and the whole time Minar was clueless. Federer's forehand either had too much zip or extreme topspin/angle. This is not just the case with low ranked guys, Monaco said the same thing about Federer after he lost to him at the US Open in 2011. He said something like 'Roger did not let me run for the shots".

Also, Djokovic is an absolute animal when he plays low ranked players. I think he has dished out more bagels to early round journeymans than Federer/Nadal. Most lower ranked players are completely overwhelmed by the depth/pace combo of Djokovic's shots. I think it was at the USO last year or the year before, this one guy got the entire Arthur Ashe crowd behind him to propel him to hold just once against Djokovic, which he did and got a round of applause for.

DolgoSantoro 03-03-2013 01:49 PM

Dat thread title...

I would say so, and I have heard quotes from players saying similar things.

always_crosscourt 03-03-2013 02:19 PM

Interesting that article said that Nadal can only hit the heavy topspin if he lets the ball drop first in order to actually brush up on the ball.

Perhaps the way to beat Nadal is by hitting extremely deep with extreme topspin to him, so he can't let the ball drop because by the time it begins to drop it has hit the back fence.

Then Nadal would be forced to hit extremely high balls with his forehand (which means he can't get as much topspin with his own forehand), or backhand (and his backhand is vulnerable against high balls, which is funny since he makes a living out of abusing other people's backhands in the same way - glass house much?).

sureshs 03-03-2013 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Power Player (Post 7248313)
I would say yes. A pro who has played on the tour against about everyone would be a better source of opinion though.

Here is the gem you want to look for to really see how hard Nadal hits. Try and look out for a match in which he plays a lower ranked guy who has never played him before. I saw one a couple years back in either IW or the USO.

Anyway, the entire first set was just the guy trying to adjust to the ball. After that, he played better (still got crushed), but it was really interesting to see. He clearly had never seen a ball like that.

Even experienced Ferrer was like that yesterday

sureshs 03-03-2013 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nostradamus (Post 7248354)
I don't think it was ball heaviness at all. Ferrer is just afraid of Nadal. If it is so heavy then why doesn't Novak have any problem with it ?

Novak is #1 in the world

sureshs 03-03-2013 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by always_crosscourt (Post 7248760)
Stupid thread title aside, I doubt Nadal hits the most topspin of anyone right now on his forehand, let alone combining his forehand and topspin backhand to get an average of the heaviness of his groundstrokes.

There simply isn't enough data on all of the players on the tour. So far I have seen RPM data only on Djokovic, Federer, Murray and Nadal. And that's only forehands.

Congrats, that's a sample size of... 4? And people extrapolate that to say Nadal hits the most topspin of all time. The top 4 aren't everyone. Other players besides the top-4, specifically the clay specialists may hit more RPM's on their forehands, in particular I reckon Andreev who is absolutely violent with his forehand, hits more RPM's than Nadal's forehand. Other players can also be significantly more jacked than feeble frickin' Nadal to fvcking blast the strings upwards through contact.

And on backhands, most 1hbh's, (especially Almagro, Gasquet, Wawrinka and Volandri) will get significantly more topspin on their backhands than Nadal does on his. Gulbis also likely has more topspin RPM's on his backhand.

There is a difference in the backhand topspins which spin away. They are not necessarily heavy. Fed produces many of them with a flicking action. Heaviness is when it is in your reach but shakes you up if you touch it.

I think Nadal's balls are the heaviest ever.

Relinquis 03-03-2013 04:08 PM

You guys have short (selective?) memory*.

Rafa's balls are too heavy for Novak to handle when on clay. Paradoxically, It's only when his balls are wet, that Novak can get a hold on them, even then barely so.


* Case in point: Rain at 2012 Roland Garros, i.e. less than a year ago.

DeShaun 03-03-2013 04:36 PM

Unless I'm mistaken, many objective individuals have opined that , yes, Rafa hits the average heaviest rally ball ever seen, AND it's coming at you with lefty spin which together make him highly unattackable and this particularly frustrates attacking players. Rafa would destroy prime McEnroe or Edberg but Borg would play Rafa tough in my opinion.

LeeD 03-03-2013 04:41 PM

Not only does he hit with some of the fastest swingspeeds in tennis, but he's super consistent, likes to tease his opponent, and has some of the quickest legs around to make you hit another ball after you've hit your winner attempt.
And his passing shots are pretty decent too, as is his 1hbh slice, and excellent volley, and a consistent first serve.
His game wears you down.


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