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-   -   17 G vs 18 G multis---Myth on power (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=457182)

Nostradamus 03-10-2013 03:43 PM

17 G vs 18 G multis---Myth on power
 
I have been told many times that 18 gauge is more powerful than 17 gauge with everything else being equal in multi strings. I am not really sure about that. Is this Real or Myth ?

Doubles 03-10-2013 03:46 PM

It will be more powerful if they are strung at the same tension.

Nostradamus 03-10-2013 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubles (Post 7263642)
It will be more powerful if they are strung at the same tension.

Disagree. I did notice more trampoline effect from 18 G at same tension but does that translate to Power, I think not. I sometimes think shots coming off 17 G string is more lively and has more velocity

Doubles 03-10-2013 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nostradamus (Post 7264381)
Disagree. I did notice more trampoline effect from 18 G at same tension but does that translate to Power, I think not. I sometimes think shots coming off 17 G string is more lively and has more velocity

The thinner string will be softer, and therefore have more trampoline effect. How you perceive it is completely personal. Though most people will tend to believe that a thinner string will have more power in comparison to a thicker version of the same string.

themitchmann 03-11-2013 04:15 AM

According to the USRSA, thinner gauges are more elastic (with all this being equal). However, some companies have different "recipes" for different gauges.

fgs 03-11-2013 04:46 AM

the impact with a larger gauge translates into more shock for the arm and therefore gives you the impression it is more lively and more speed, because you FEEL it more.

thinner gauges have a higher launch angle than thicker gauges which will translate into more length, not neccessarily more speed. but you also gain a little bit on speed for the mere fact that thinner gauges have a larger deflection on impact and therefore a little bit more energy is added to the ball.

all the above is correct when strung in the same frame at the same tension!

if i would make a head to head comparison though of the same kind of string but in different diameters, i would go lower on the thicker gauge by about 1kg. if i string a 1.20 at 21kg, i'd string the 1.25 at 20kg. this is not a scientific method but my empirical findings from stringing and playing for quite a long while now.

Nostradamus 03-11-2013 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fgs (Post 7264793)
the impact with a larger gauge translates into more shock for the arm and therefore gives you the impression it is more lively and more speed, because you FEEL it more.

thinner gauges have a higher launch angle than thicker gauges which will translate into more length, not neccessarily more speed. but you also gain a little bit on speed for the mere fact that thinner gauges have a larger deflection on impact and therefore a little bit more energy is added to the ball.

all the above is correct when strung in the same frame at the same tension!

if i would make a head to head comparison though of the same kind of string but in different diameters, i would go lower on the thicker gauge by about 1kg. if i string a 1.20 at 21kg, i'd string the 1.25 at 20kg. this is not a scientific method but my empirical findings from stringing and playing for quite a long while now.

You are the Einstein of Tennis strings. Could you please be the Official Expert on string on this board, please. I Nominate you.

One other question is "are the thinner strings make the racket more maneuverable ? because less resistance because it is thinner ?"

fgs 03-11-2013 06:13 AM

nostradamus,

thank you for the praise, but i'd rather be zweistein - sounds more original.:)

regarding maneuvaerability - theoretically and practically yes. two things will contribute to this: first as you mentioned less resistance while swinging through the air and second, you have less weight with thinner gauges. so this will slightly tilt the balance towards the grip, and hence increase maneuverability.

on a realistical base though, these things we are talking about, increased aerodynamics and slightly more headlight balance will not make any sizeable impact on the strokeproduction of a mere mortal.

Nostradamus 03-11-2013 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fgs (Post 7264936)
nostradamus,

thank you for the praise, but i'd rather be zweistein - sounds more original.:)

regarding maneuvaerability - theoretically and practically yes. two things will contribute to this: first as you mentioned less resistance while swinging through the air and second, you have less weight with thinner gauges. so this will slightly tilt the balance towards the grip, and hence increase maneuverability.

on a realistical base though, these things we are talking about, increased aerodynamics and slightly more headlight balance will not make any sizeable impact on the strokeproduction of a mere mortal.

Thanks, I might experiment with this. but so few multis come in 18 gauge though. and there is some issue with too much trampoline effect coming from 18 gauge string.
Which do you think gives the most spin ? RPM blast, Pro hurr tour, or kirschbaum Proline 2 ?

fgs 03-11-2013 06:56 AM

1. if you string tighter you will get less trampoline effect with the 18g multis.

2. i have not yet extensively played neither the rpm blast nor the pro hurricane tour. the pro line II is pretty nice but no spin monster and as far as my memory serves me right i experienced a rather severe second tension drop around the fifth hitting hour which made the string rather difficult to control. if your time window is less than it is a really enjoyable string, but if you go past the 5hrs mark then you should be looking for other options, as it is not really a cheap string to start with.
i will most probably play the babolats extensively sometime in early summer if i keep to my schedule and nothing unexpected happens until then.

why do you want a 18g multi? personally, most of the 16g (1.30mm) multis i have tried lasted me max. 5 hitting hours as a cross to poly-mains. with some 17g (1.25) multis i barely made it through a practice session. if i would take an 18g multi i think it would break in less than an hour. that would get me to one hour of stringing (2 sticks) for every two-hours practice session. i have to admit that i never played anything that thin (in terms of multis or synguts), but it is hard to imagine that there would be any real benefit from it. in a tight patterned 85-90 sq.inch stick it might be an argument, but i see you are sporting a 100sq.inch stick.

Nostradamus 03-11-2013 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fgs (Post 7265020)
1. if you string tighter you will get less trampoline effect with the 18g multis.

2. i have not yet extensively played neither the rpm blast nor the pro hurricane tour. the pro line II is pretty nice but no spin monster and as far as my memory serves me right i experienced a rather severe second tension drop around the fifth hitting hour which made the string rather difficult to control. if your time window is less than it is a really enjoyable string, but if you go past the 5hrs mark then you should be looking for other options, as it is not really a cheap string to start with.
i will most probably play the babolats extensively sometime in early summer if i keep to my schedule and nothing unexpected happens until then.

why do you want a 18g multi? personally, most of the 16g (1.30mm) multis i have tried lasted me max. 5 hitting hours as a cross to poly-mains. with some 17g (1.25) multis i barely made it through a practice session. if i would take an 18g multi i think it would break in less than an hour. that would get me to one hour of stringing (2 sticks) for every two-hours practice session. i have to admit that i never played anything that thin (in terms of multis or synguts), but it is hard to imagine that there would be any real benefit from it. in a tight patterned 85-90 sq.inch stick it might be an argument, but i see you are sporting a 100sq.inch stick.

You have a good point. I think 18 g has too much trampoline effect even strung in the 60's. and once the tension drops, pinpoint control I seek is OUT the window if you know what I mean. but I like that EXTRA manuverablility provided by 18 G strings.

Pete Sampras used to use 18 gauge natural gut so must be something to it.
Breaking the string is not really a issue, I re-string my rackets every 4 -6 hour mark of using it, break or not.

fgs 03-11-2013 07:47 AM

pistol pete didn't have to pay for the strings, just for the stringing.:)

that is indeed a wise thing to do - restringing every 4-6 hours. i don't do it for the simple reason that the vast majority of strings i play break at 8hrs max. and i can live with a hitting session of dead/trampoliney polys since i play them hybrids and that does not stress the arm so much.

Nostradamus 03-11-2013 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fgs (Post 7265124)
pistol pete didn't have to pay for the strings, just for the stringing.:)

that is indeed a wise thing to do - restringing every 4-6 hours. i don't do it for the simple reason that the vast majority of strings i play break at 8hrs max. and i can live with a hitting session of dead/trampoliney polys since i play them hybrids and that does not stress the arm so much.

do you think 18 g is really worth that extra manuverabiliity at net ?

Doubles 03-11-2013 08:17 AM

That's totally personal preference, no?

ricardo 03-11-2013 08:49 AM

Try using TW string database as a guide..
 
Whenever I look for a string with the desired characteristics (i.e power, stiffness, tension loss, etc), I always consult TW String Database.

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/lear...r/reporter.php

For power, select Energy return % as a parameter and sort the report based on that parameter. What you will notice is that NG is the most powerful string, followed by Multi/synthetics, and then by polys. For each string type (i.e gut, multi, poly), you get a list of different strings brands, make, and gauges.

Nostradamus 03-11-2013 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricardo (Post 7265270)
Whenever I look for a string with the desired characteristics (i.e power, stiffness, tension loss, etc), I always consult TW String Database.

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/lear...r/reporter.php

For power, select Energy return % as a parameter and sort the report based on that parameter. What you will notice is that NG is the most powerful string, followed by Multi/synthetics, and then by polys. For each string type (i.e gut, multi, poly), you get a list of different strings brands, make, and gauges.

True, Agree Completely. but what about string maneuverability effect on rackets ?

fgs 03-11-2013 09:30 AM

nostradamus,

i sincerely doubt that you will feel the added maneuverability of 18g vs. 17g for instance.

i have recently matched my sticks and modded them (they were really close in terms of specs anyway, i just wanted them a little bit less headlight) and by chance had some syngut samples i got some time ago, and decided to give them a go. so, i ended up with one stick with a 1.35mm syngut in the crosses and another one sporting the same brand/type but in 1.30. there definitely have been differences, for instance the 1.35crossed stick adding about 2g of weight more than the 1.30crossed one, but this was not at all influencing the swing of the sticks.

in my opinion the sticks swung the same in spite of the 2g heavier 1.35syngut. the explanation is rather simple - when you add 2g of lead at 12 o'clock, you are making a rather polarized change in the dynamic behaviour of the stick. by adding the same 2g basically all over the head of the stick you will only incrementally up the swingweight, so you don't really feel it. at the end of the day you would most probably hit something like an inch longer with the heavier one, and that is something we should not really talk about as it has nothing to do with playing tennis - at least i am galaxies away from calling that eventually added inch an truly remarkable hike in my precision.:)

ricardo 03-11-2013 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nostradamus (Post 7265292)
True, Agree Completely. but what about string maneuverability effect on rackets ?

You got me there.

All I know is that maneuverability is a function of racket balance: Head light rackets in general are more maneuverable than head-heavy rackets.

Strings make a racket more head-heavy because any added weight you add from the balance point (usually the throat) to the tip of the racket makes a racket head heavy.

In general, thinner strings are supposed to be lighter than thicker strings.
But is this always true?

Experiment.

LeeD 03-11-2013 01:11 PM

I agree with the N man. After all, his name forsees the future.
18 indeed hit harder if you have soft swings.
17 can hit harder with strong fast swings using heavy rackets.
18's, with strong fast swings and heavy rackets, just start to lose control, forcing the player to reign back his power.

Nostradamus 03-11-2013 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 7266007)
I agree with the N man. After all, his name forsees the future.
18 indeed hit harder if you have soft swings.
17 can hit harder with strong fast swings using heavy rackets.
18's, with strong fast swings and heavy rackets, just start to lose control, forcing the player to reign back his power.

LeeD, I always challenge people to think and think out of the box.

I have been doing 18 G multi with 17 G Poly. What do you think about 17 G Multi and 18 G poly, do you think that is better ?:confused:


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