Talk Tennis

Talk Tennis (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php)
-   Pros' Racquets and Gear (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/forumdisplay.php?f=10)
-   -   Why do pros lead up sticks? Why not have a custom made? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=457424)

Lilguy1456 03-12-2013 12:46 PM

Why do pros lead up sticks? Why not have a custom made?
 
Why do some pros lead up sticks so much? Why not just have a stick made perfectly tailored for their game? I understand they may want to make little adjustments, but it seems if companies are going to take old models and paint them new for pro use, why not just create it perfect to begin with?

Povl Carstensen 03-12-2013 02:03 PM

My theory is that rackets are made with layers of carbonfibre. So to fine tune the weight, balance etc, you need to apply lead or some other kind of weight. Varying the layup of the racket is not exact enough for that.

Lilguy1456 03-12-2013 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Povl Carstensen (Post 7268757)
My theory is that rackets are made with layers of carbonfibre. So to fine tune the weight, balance etc, you need to apply lead or some other kind of weight. Varying the layup of the racket is not exact enough for that.

Interesting...I thought there was a definitive answer to this...so we don't know for sure?

gavna 03-12-2013 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilguy1456 (Post 7268602)
Why do some pros lead up sticks so much? Why not just have a stick made perfectly tailored for their game? I understand they may want to make little adjustments, but it seems if companies are going to take old models and paint them new for pro use, why not just create it perfect to begin with?

Because creating specific sticks for every single player who would want one would cost a fortune in time and labor. Easy to just have one stick that many could customize..........economies of scale.

PrinceMoron 03-12-2013 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Povl Carstensen (Post 7268757)
My theory is that rackets are made with layers of carbonfibre. So to fine tune the weight, balance etc, you need to apply lead or some other kind of weight. Varying the layup of the racket is not exact enough for that.

There is lots of lead in the PE handles of Wilsons, even for off the shelf frames.Shows how hard it is to get within tolerances.

corners 03-12-2013 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gavna (Post 7268796)
Because creating specific sticks for every single player who would want one would cost a fortune in time and labor. Easy to just have one stick that many could customize..........economies of scale.

This, and also, it's very difficult to manufacturer two racquets so that they have the exact same specs, especially the exact same swingweight. Take Fed - Wilson sends P1 a bunch of racquets that are produced to a target swingweight about 10 units below what he actually plays with. But they can't get it exact on every stick, even for Federer. So P1 gets one with 340 swingweight, another with 335 SW, another with 345 SW, and so on. From there it's a simple matter for P1 to add a little lead to each one to get them all to 354 swingweight. (This is not a confirmed figure, BTW, but it's the best guess at this point.) If Wilson tried to make them 354 themselves they'd end up with half the production run going over 354 and the other half under 354. So P1 would still have to add a little lead to the lighter ones to match them, but there would also be a bunch of useless sticks with greater than 354 swingweight.

(Consider that only one racquet company even tells us what the target swingweight is for a particular model. They print the weight and balance targets on the frame, but not the swingweight. Only Prince does, and that might be because the way they build their heads (with the holes) makes it easier to get the weight distributed consistently.)

I have heard that Yonex actually customizes their pro frames exactly to the player's specs, in the mold. I don't know if that's true and I've never heard of another company doing this. It could just be a legend, but it kind of adds to Yonex's quality reputation.

gunnd5000 03-12-2013 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corners (Post 7269122)
This, and also, it's very difficult to manufacturer two racquets so that they have the exact same specs, especially the exact same swingweight. Take Fed - Wilson sends P1 a bunch of racquets that are produced to a target swingweight about 10 units below what he actually plays with. But they can't get it exact on every stick, even for Federer. So P1 gets one with 340 swingweight, another with 335 SW, another with 345 SW, and so on. From there it's a simple matter for P1 to add a little lead to each one to get them all to 354 swingweight. (This is not a confirmed figure, BTW, but it's the best guess at this point.) If Wilson tried to make them 354 themselves they'd end up with half the production run going over 354 and the other half under 354. So P1 would still have to add a little lead to the lighter ones to match them, but there would also be a bunch of useless sticks with greater than 354 swingweight.

(Consider that only one racquet company even tells us what the target swingweight is for a particular model. They print the weight and balance targets on the frame, but not the swingweight. Only Prince does, and that might be because the way they build their heads (with the holes) makes it easier to get the weight distributed consistently.)

I have heard that Yonex actually customizes their pro frames exactly to the player's specs, in the mold. I don't know if that's true and I've never heard of another company doing this. It could just be a legend, but it kind of adds to Yonex's quality reputation.

Yonex clothes, ohh so comfy

フェデラー 03-12-2013 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corners (Post 7269122)
This, and also, it's very difficult to manufacturer two racquets so that they have the exact same specs, especially the exact same swingweight. Take Fed - Wilson sends P1 a bunch of racquets that are produced to a target swingweight about 10 units below what he actually plays with. But they can't get it exact on every stick, even for Federer. So P1 gets one with 340 swingweight, another with 335 SW, another with 345 SW, and so on. From there it's a simple matter for P1 to add a little lead to each one to get them all to 354 swingweight. (This is not a confirmed figure, BTW, but it's the best guess at this point.) If Wilson tried to make them 354 themselves they'd end up with half the production run going over 354 and the other half under 354. So P1 would still have to add a little lead to the lighter ones to match them, but there would also be a bunch of useless sticks with greater than 354 swingweight.

(Consider that only one racquet company even tells us what the target swingweight is for a particular model. They print the weight and balance targets on the frame, but not the swingweight. Only Prince does, and that might be because the way they build their heads (with the holes) makes it easier to get the weight distributed consistently.)

I have heard that Yonex actually customizes their pro frames exactly to the player's specs, in the mold. I don't know if that's true and I've never heard of another company doing this. It could just be a legend, but it kind of adds to Yonex's quality reputation.

Not sure about that last statement. Stan clearly leads his up, but Nalby and Hewitt do not. So it's very possible that they do

boinz 03-12-2013 06:25 PM

I got a pair of Yonex pro stock which has the player's name in the throat.
They are factory made to be much heavier than retail specs and also more head light... but real pity I cannot measure the flex becos of the lack of proper equipment.

vandre 03-12-2013 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corners (Post 7269122)
This, and also, it's very difficult to manufacturer two racquets so that they have the exact same specs, especially the exact same swingweight. Take Fed - Wilson sends P1 a bunch of racquets that are produced to a target swingweight about 10 units below what he actually plays with. But they can't get it exact on every stick, even for Federer. So P1 gets one with 340 swingweight, another with 335 SW, another with 345 SW, and so on. From there it's a simple matter for P1 to add a little lead to each one to get them all to 354 swingweight. (This is not a confirmed figure, BTW, but it's the best guess at this point.) If Wilson tried to make them 354 themselves they'd end up with half the production run going over 354 and the other half under 354. So P1 would still have to add a little lead to the lighter ones to match them, but there would also be a bunch of useless sticks with greater than 354 swingweight.

(Consider that only one racquet company even tells us what the target swingweight is for a particular model. They print the weight and balance targets on the frame, but not the swingweight. Only Prince does, and that might be because the way they build their heads (with the holes) makes it easier to get the weight distributed consistently.)

I have heard that Yonex actually customizes their pro frames exactly to the player's specs, in the mold. I don't know if that's true and I've never heard of another company doing this. It could just be a legend, but it kind of adds to Yonex's quality reputation.

i'll tack on a +1 to both of these. it'd be really cost and time intensive to do it for everyone in the stable (especially if you were trying to get a new endorsee sticks at for the aussie warmups after they inked a new deal a month or so ago). maybe it would happen more if there were more of an offseason but i wouldn't hold my breath.

i'd really like the yonex story to be true though! :)

smiley_face 03-13-2013 12:23 AM

Ask Filip Peliwo, is he still aroung here?

corners 03-13-2013 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boinz (Post 7269491)
I got a pair of Yonex pro stock which has the player's name in the throat.
They are factory made to be much heavier than retail specs and also more head light... but real pity I cannot measure the flex becos of the lack of proper equipment.

You can measure flex. You just need a clamp and a 25kg weight. That's what the Bab RDC measurement is based on.

ART ART 03-13-2013 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corners (Post 7269989)
You can measure flex. You just need a clamp and a 25kg weight. That's what the Bab RDC measurement is based on.

Can you please explain the procedure ?

Rogael Naderer 03-13-2013 03:22 AM

Because it's just simpler to use lead. And even better, completely reversible and modifiable

We see it with head pro stock frames, made purposefully light so that you may add lead at your leisure to achieve the right weight, balance, SW and feel you require.

Lavs 03-13-2013 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corners (Post 7269122)

I have heard that Yonex actually customizes their pro frames exactly to the player's specs, in the mold. I don't know if that's true and I've never heard of another company doing this. It could just be a legend, but it kind of adds to Yonex's quality reputation.

I am sure Hewitt's rackets exactly the same you described and do not have any lead in.
But not sure about Wawrinka's ones as I saw lots of lead around the hoop..

robbo1970 03-13-2013 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogael Naderer (Post 7270064)
Because it's just simpler to use lead. And even better, completely reversible and modifiable

We see it with head pro stock frames, made purposefully light so that you may add lead at your leisure to achieve the right weight, balance, SW and feel you require.

This ^^

I also suspect its just easier once the player gets their rackets back from the customzier and they can give them a little tweak here and there to get it just right.

Dave M 03-13-2013 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corners (Post 7269122)

I have heard that Yonex actually customizes their pro frames exactly to the player's specs, in the mold. I don't know if that's true and I've never heard of another company doing this. It could just be a legend, but it kind of adds to Yonex's quality reputation.

I had 3 from Joachim Johansson, totally custom out of the mold, not for mere mortals like me but best racquet for the 10 mins where your footwork is good and timing is on!

Rogael Naderer 03-13-2013 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robbo1970 (Post 7270155)
This ^^

I also suspect its just easier once the player gets their rackets back from the customzier and they can give them a little tweak here and there to get it just right.

Indeed, and unless it was someone like P1 tennis doing it, I always prefer weighing and balancing my own frames personally; it removes any doubt on the court.

SandV 03-13-2013 11:32 AM

(Consider that only one racquet company even tells us what the target swingweight is for a particular model. They print the weight and balance targets on the frame, but not the swingweight. Only Prince does, and that might be because the way they build their heads (with the holes) makes it easier to get the weight distributed consistently.)

Don't know about the Storm, but the old Bab Pure Control printed the swingweight range on the frame, using the term Dynamic Inertia.

slowfox 03-13-2013 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smiley_face (Post 7269952)
Ask Filip Peliwo, is he still aroung here?

Vaguely recall him saying that his racquet is stock. He did also say that he might start experimenting with lead soon.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:09 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2006 - Tennis Warehouse