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-   -   5.0 Male Player vs Date Krumm (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=457625)

El Nino 03-14-2013 11:05 AM

5.0 Male Player vs Date Krumm
 
Ohh this should be a good debate. Any thoughts?
I think Date Krumm would win due to the change of pace on her strokes despite her age (43 years old I think?). But the 5.0 guy might stand a good chance actually. (Remember, she took a set of Venus in Wimbledon in 2011)

Govnor 03-14-2013 11:22 AM

Probably a good match. Tough call. A pro probably has a mental and game plan edge though.

Edit**

After reading this thread after I posted, it is clear a true 5.0 would not have a chance.

LeeD 03-14-2013 11:26 AM

While Krumm is a somewhat known entity, we still don't know how she reacts to 130 heater serves and really high bouncing groundies, or how she react to a good volleyer with a great overhead.
The 5.0 is a complete unknown. You can post a low level pusher 5.0 with no putaway shot and Kimiko wins breadsticks.
You can post a RISING 5.0, one with a huge serve, decent volleys, but a great cover at the net, including overheads, and he might win by 3's.
A baseline counterpuncher 5.0 might be very even.
Matchups.

treblings 03-14-2013 11:41 AM

help me out here. im not so familiar with this ntrp thing. would a 5.0 have a world ranking(in the 1000s maybe), or a national ranking?

LeeD 03-14-2013 11:56 AM

A 5.0 CAN have a world ranking, if he entered and did well in some obscure pro tourney.
But, in general, a 5.0 is a good college level player, with no chance of beating a top 1000 ATP player.

treblings 03-14-2013 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 7274275)
A 5.0 CAN have a world ranking, if he entered and did well in some obscure pro tourney.
But, in general, a 5.0 is a good college level player, with no chance of beating a top 1000 ATP player.

thanks
based on what you say i agree with your post #3 that it would probably depend on the style of play,...
a rising college player with a big game might be able to win

bhupaes 03-14-2013 12:59 PM

Based on what I see in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzJ9WVcIJlI

the male 5.0 player will probably wake up in ER, not knowing what hit him... :)

LeeD 03-14-2013 01:07 PM

Like I said, it depends on which 5.0 male player we are talking about.
A grounstroker will lose.
A net player with a big serve, not necessarily fast, but well placed wide, with a decent volley would do well.
A pusher 5.0 will lose breadsticks.
Bhupaes, do you have any experience playing a WTA pro? Or even a woman's A/Open player.
Player's I have played practice sets with or just hit with..... PeanutLouie, MarcieLouie, Ceci and Marisa, CeciMartinez, SusanBrown, DanaGilbert, ArleneCohen, IllanaKloss, RosieCasals, BrittDunkerbeck, and several singles players for UCBerkeley.

Andres 03-14-2013 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 7274225)
While Krumm is a somewhat known entity, we still don't know how she reacts to 130 heater serves and really high bouncing groundies, or how she react to a good volleyer with a great overhead.
The 5.0 is a complete unknown. You can post a low level pusher 5.0 with no putaway shot and Kimiko wins breadsticks.
You can post a RISING 5.0, one with a huge serve, decent volleys, but a great cover at the net, including overheads, and he might win by 3's.
A baseline counterpuncher 5.0 might be very even.
Matchups.

There are no 5.0 pushers with no putaway shots.

LeeD 03-14-2013 01:25 PM

Sure there are. That pusher guy who hangs around the ATP tour trying to win a point is one.
To YOU, there are no 5.0 or 6.0 pushers.
To Nadal, Fed, and most of the top 10, there are plenty of 7.0 pushers.
BradGilbert is proud to be a 7.0 pusher at times. HaroldSolomon SAID he was a pusher.
To a beginner, a 3.5 pusher is a great player who hits hard. Maybe to you also.
It depends on where you're coming from.

bhupaes 03-14-2013 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 7274407)
Like I said, it depends on which 5.0 male player we are talking about.
A grounstroker will lose.
A net player with a big serve, not necessarily fast, but well placed wide, with a decent volley would do well.
A pusher 5.0 will lose breadsticks.
Bhupaes, do you have any experience playing a WTA pro? Or even a woman's A/Open player.
Player's I have played practice sets with or just hit with..... PeanutLouie, MarcieLouie, Ceci and Marisa, CeciMartinez, SusanBrown, DanaGilbert, ArleneCohen, IllanaKloss, RosieCasals, BrittDunkerbeck, and several singles players for UCBerkeley.

No, I haven't played with any pro, male or female. But I have played against 5.0 males, and even got a few games. I have also seen WTA players at the Bank of the West event in Stanford, from up close. Based only on these, I think I am safe in saying that 5.0 ain't good enough to beat the likes of Kimiko Date - not even close, IMO.

luvforty 03-14-2013 01:43 PM

Lee u wrong. 5.0 has no chance

Timbo's hopeless slice 03-14-2013 01:48 PM

no chance

Date Krumm to breadstick if the 5.0 has a couple of perfect service games.

don't kid yourself, 5.0 is just very good rec level, nowhere near a top 100 WTA player..

LeeD 03-14-2013 01:50 PM

OK, two guys who NEVER played against, or hit with any WTA player, OR any A/Open woman's player vs LeeD, who has played more than 20 sets against PeanutLouie, Marcie, Illana, and CeciMartinez.....but more important, talked to them about tennis, and about tennis between men and girls.
Which opinion, and it's only an opinion, carries more weight?
Someone who's "seen" WTA players, or someone who actually hit with and talked to WTA and A/Open women's players?
And we know Dozu has no experience here.
Your choice. The voice of experience, or pure speculation?
Marcie had WON the Canadian Open before I started hitting with her.
Pea won several tourneys the year AFTER I was hitting with her.

fruitytennis1 03-14-2013 01:53 PM

A 5.5 with a good serve would probably be more likely..
I don't think 5.0 could do it

Timbo's hopeless slice 03-14-2013 01:55 PM

how about someone who hits with a former top 100 WTA ( 2001 - 2004 ) player twice a week and has two pupils currently on DI rides in the states?

The former pro could regularly beat both these boys right up until they left to take up their scholarships, and she's in her thirties now!

forget it, LeeD, no 5.0 can hurt Date Krumm with anything they have.

Moz 03-14-2013 01:59 PM

The vast majority of 5.0's would get destroyed.

There's an understandable backlash against people who say Serena could be competitive in the men's game - unfortunately it's gone too far the other way.

Is the male ego really so fragile that because the vast majority of men don't get to 5.0 that therefore means 5.0's must be competitive with highly rated professional women?

What a joke.

LeeD 03-14-2013 02:00 PM

I hope you Einsteins don't think EVERY 5.0 player plays exactly the same.
If you do, we can eliminate you right now.
Some 5.0's are hanging in at that level by a nail, really belong in 4.5, and maybe not even there.
Some 5.0's are going to 6.0 within a few months, and only have to play the necessary tournaments to make the jump.
THERE ARE DIFFERENT levels of play in 5.0.
My best tennis bud, a No.2 for CCSF (Div111) beat me every match. He also LOST in the first round of all 12 A/Opens we played in, while I got to the third round 4 times, and only lost in the first round 3 times. He was the better player for sure! I was lefty, had a strong 2hbh, and served good enough that A/Open players would ask me to serve to them for practice, as did the top women around SanFrancisco.
There are DIFFERENT levels of 5.0, and they hit differently, and match up differently!

Avles 03-14-2013 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 7274275)
But, in general, a 5.0 is a good college level player, with no chance of beating a top 1000 ATP player.

5.0 doesn't seem to be a "good college level player" according to NTRP self-rating guidelines:

http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/15/E...2011_V2pdf.pdf

A current or recent D1 player is not supposed to self-rate lower than 5.5.

No current or recent college players are supposed to self-rate lower than 5.0.

LeeD 03-14-2013 02:11 PM

Another scientist here. Do you even play tennis?
You have no experience, and know only what you read.
Read the thread of "how good do I have to play" and see the variance of answers.


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