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-   -   New One Piece stringing pattern (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=458135)

Irvin 03-19-2013 04:18 AM

New One Piece stringing pattern
 
I have been using a one piece stringing pattern lately that will work on any racket except for Prince with side O Ports. I made a video that shows how the pattern is done here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUqVq...ature=youtu.be

I don't tie off an outside main with this pattern and I show how I tie off now using a VS Starting knot to reduce drawback to almost nothing. This knot is also very easy to tie on poly string. I don't think this knot is a great starting knot though unless you take some time with it.

v-verb 03-19-2013 05:13 AM

This could be fantastic! Watching this eagerly - thanks!

Two questions - will this cause undue stress to the frame? and can this be done with a Klippermate?

Irvin 03-19-2013 05:26 AM

I think this will cause less stress on the frame because you are not stringing so many strings in a row at the top and bottom corners of the racket. This could very easily be done on any stringer with flying clamps. If I were to have done this with flying clamps I would have tensioned the first two crosses on theshort side by double pulling, then you have a cross string to clamp the first cross on the long side. But when I finished the long side I would pull tension on each croos on the short side individually.

EDIT: All that is assuming you do not have a starting clamp. I would use the starting clamp if you have one.

v-verb 03-19-2013 05:29 AM

Oops the video cut off before you finished the close up of the tie-off knot

v-verb 03-19-2013 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvin (Post 7287850)
I think this will cause less stress on the frame because you are not stringing so many strings in a row at the top and bottom corners of the racket. This could very easily be done on any stringer with flying clamps. If I were to have done this with flying clamps I would have tensioned the first two crosses on theshort side by double pulling, then you have a cross string to clamp the first cross on the long side. But when I finished the long side I would pull tension on each croos on the short side individually.

Thanks Irwin - I'll give this a try this week - much appreciated! I do have a starting clamp so I guess I would follow your exact process?

Irvin 03-19-2013 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v-verb (Post 7287857)
Oops the video cut off before you finished the close up of the tie-off knot

Sorry, It was a long video and I have a longer version that shows this pattern on two more rackets. I will make sure I get it fixed up.

v-verb 03-19-2013 05:36 AM

no worries - this could help me a ton as I just started stringing and it's not an intuitive process for me at all.

If I can get used to your method it could make things a lot easier!!

And I think it could be a great help to a lot of stringers - esp those who hate tying knots...

bcart1991 03-19-2013 06:02 AM

I like that this method eliminates the loss of tension on the outside mains.

diredesire 03-19-2013 09:31 AM

Hey Irvin, can you give a brief text version of the key points of the pattern? I'll try to get to this video if I can, but spending ~13-15 mins watching a video at work is probably not going to go over well ;)

I haven't seen you post about that unraveling technique at the front of the vid. BRILLIANT!

Irvin 03-19-2013 10:04 AM

Sure DD. I start with 7 rackets lengths for the short side and string all the mains on the short and long side. I then use the short side to string from two grommets above the outside main down with the short side and three grommets above the outside main for all the top crosses. If the mains end in the throat I string bottom up with the long side. If the mains end at the head I string top down with the long side.

EDIT: Also if the mains start in the throat I string with a short side of 7.5 racket lengths because I use a starting clamp and start with the two right side crosses. I don't like putting a starting clamp at the top because it may cause shear.

bbulla 03-19-2013 10:07 AM

I just watched, but having a hard time figuring out the point. Sure the two outside mains have 'full' tension on them, but you are now string your crosses bottom up....isn't that the cardinal sin of stringing??

There are other ways to keep tension on the outside mains, and as the USRSA stringing guide states, tension loss on the outside mains isn't really big issue.

Irvin 03-19-2013 10:16 AM

The racket is a Wilson and as I stated in the video I usually only do this on Wilson and Babolat rackets. Although I don't think bottom up is such a bad idea.

As far as tension loss on mains go, I don't think it is a big deal if the tension on both sides is the same. If you tie off one main and and lose tension it isn't a big deal but it isn't good either.

EDIT: If you tie off the a cross (or two, or three) with the short side you will have a short section of frame going from the outside main to the next cross. Or you end up having a long string outside the frame you tie off. If you use an ATW you have short sections of frame supporting transitions, hard weaves, blocked holes, mis weaves, and a host of other issues to deal with. I would agree two piece is still better but if you want one piece and a simple pattern without all the other usual problems I think this pattern is best.

EDIT: By the way I just strung a racket two piece top down using the same pattern. String all the mains first, then the fifth cross down and end up with the last four crosses. Had this been a racket which only skip one grommet at the head I would have strung the fourth cross down and then end up with the last three. One pattern one piece or two piece for any racket. how simple can you get?

v-verb 03-19-2013 10:32 AM

This is pretty exciting for me as I string at low tension - 35 lbs - so for me I think there is no isue on frame stress using this method - although as Irwin stated somewhere above, this method may stress the frame even less than normal

Rabbit 03-19-2013 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvin (Post 7287850)
I think this will cause less stress on the frame because you are not stringing so many strings in a row at the top and bottom corners of the racket.

I have always been told, and still believe, that stringing bottom up puts more stress on the top of the frame than stringing top down. I have been told this by a couple of folks who string at the top level of the game. The increase in pressure on the frame going bottom up is cumulative with each cross installed. This has and continues to be the "golden rule" for all manufacturers save Babolat.

While it's true Wilson and Babolat allow one-piece bottom up, Wilson stipulates that if two-piece is done, it should be done top down (I have not checked Babolat).

I much prefer stringing my 99S's using ATW. Unfortunately, the frame is not set up for a tie off on the cross at the top of the frame so I tie off on a main. At the bottom, I tie off on a cross. If there were a suitable grommet hole at the top of the frame, I'd just pull a couple of extra lengths of string on the short side and string the first two crosses at the top using one as a tie off.

So, I don't think this method puts less stress on the frame given that frames are recommended to be strung top down in nearly all cases (save Babolat). That said, as I've noted before stringing at a professional tournament, I see frames that have been strung so much, the paint is worn off where the string is pulled across the frame at the 4 and 8 o'clock positions. I know these frames have not been handled with kit gloves by stringers and have been strung 7 ways to Sunday and still hold up. I also see more and more stringers stringing bottom up because they see it as convenient. As for me, I'll do top down using either one-piece, ATW, or two-piece.

Irvin 03-19-2013 01:29 PM

Babolat also prefers two piece top down stringing. But I have not always been told bottom up stringing is bad for the frame. Prince just recently told me the 2 piece 50/50 is better for the frame. At one time Babolat came out with a one piece 50/50 which was approved by the USRSA for ALL Rackets! The problem with the 1 piece 50/50 method though was you blocked several holes going up the racket on each side of the frame and that long section of string on the outside of the frame caused a lot of tension loss so at one point they recommended upping the tension on the first two center crosses which caused other problems.

I too prefer (two piece) top down stringing and with all the hybrid stringing being done today you can't always use one piece. But still I am using a variation of this pattern for stringing two piece which employs top down stringing except for the top 3 or 4 crosses.

But there are many stringers that prefer one piece string patterns and a one piece pattern that works for any racket (except Prince) is worth a look.

Sweet-Spot 03-19-2013 01:52 PM

Let me know when the fixed video is up. I watch all your videos Irvin, they're cool!

diredesire 03-19-2013 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbulla (Post 7288409)
I just watched, but having a hard time figuring out the point. Sure the two outside mains have 'full' tension on them, but you are now string your crosses bottom up....isn't that the cardinal sin of stringing??

There are other ways to keep tension on the outside mains, and as the USRSA stringing guide states, tension loss on the outside mains isn't really big issue.

Like Irvin said, i think the main concern here is having tension symmetry across the center of the frame. If both outside are loose (due to tie off tension loss [2 pc]), it's fine as long as it's consistent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvin (Post 7288406)
Sure DD. I start with 7 rackets lengths for the short side and string all the mains on the short and long side. I then use the short side to string from two grommets above the outside main down with the short side and three grommets above the outside main for all the top crosses. If the mains end in the throat I string bottom up with the long side. If the mains end at the head I string top down with the long side.

EDIT: Also if the mains start in the throat I string with a short side of 7.5 racket lengths because I use a starting clamp and start with the two right side crosses. I don't like putting a starting clamp at the top because it may cause shear.

Thanks, this helped me consume the information much more quickly :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabbit (Post 7288803)
I have always been told, and still believe, that stringing bottom up puts more stress on the top of the frame than stringing top down. I have been told this by a couple of folks who string at the top level of the game. The increase in pressure on the frame going bottom up is cumulative with each cross installed. This has and continues to be the "golden rule" for all manufacturers save Babolat.

While it's true Wilson and Babolat allow one-piece bottom up, Wilson stipulates that if two-piece is done, it should be done top down (I have not checked Babolat).

I much prefer stringing my 99S's using ATW. Unfortunately, the frame is not set up for a tie off on the cross at the top of the frame so I tie off on a main. At the bottom, I tie off on a cross. If there were a suitable grommet hole at the top of the frame, I'd just pull a couple of extra lengths of string on the short side and string the first two crosses at the top using one as a tie off.

So, I don't think this method puts less stress on the frame given that frames are recommended to be strung top down in nearly all cases (save Babolat). That said, as I've noted before stringing at a professional tournament, I see frames that have been strung so much, the paint is worn off where the string is pulled across the frame at the 4 and 8 o'clock positions. I know these frames have not been handled with kit gloves by stringers and have been strung 7 ways to Sunday and still hold up. I also see more and more stringers stringing bottom up because they see it as convenient. As for me, I'll do top down using either one-piece, ATW, or two-piece.

I think from a theoretical standpoint all the above is correct. It'd be exaggerated on a 2 point mount, too, I think. There indeed is less direct stress put on the 10/2 with this method... there's no string (at first) on these areas! The issue we run into is when the string compresses the horizontal axis, stretching the frame (towards 12/6). If you look at the way the outside mounts are designed, there is actually no support IF the frame gets stretched. This indeed is the worst case for the exaggerated bends at 10/2. This is extremely unlikely to happen, though, as you likely mounted the frame in its "resting" state/shape, and the frame is pre-compressed (within limits of mounting movement) prior to cross strings going in. Long story short (combined with friction loss in woven cross strings), it's unlikely to ever be exaggerated enough to where the 10/2 is truly an issue. It's friendlier (theoretically) to string top down, and I will continue to do so, but I see no immediate issues with any non-standard patterns -- we can dissect them and take the best out of every non-standard pattern, as far as I'm concerned :)

Short story: Most racquets are extremely tough as it is, and a properly mounted frame shouldn't ever REALLY be at risk. The purpose of manufacturer warranties is really to cover gross manufacturing defects, and gross defects should show themselves even properly strung. I consider stringing a 'craft' though, and experimentation like this is always interesting to see. I don't always stick to 'standard' patterns, myself.

Irvin 03-19-2013 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diredesire (Post 7288930)
... There indeed is less direct stress put on the 10/2 with this method... there's no string (at first) on these areas! The issue we run into is when the string compresses the horizontal axis, stretching the frame (towards 12/6). If you look at the way the outside mounts are designed, there is actually no support IF the frame gets stretched. This indeed is the worst case for the exaggerated bends at 10/2...

Well I sort of agree but there is stress on the frame initially at the four corners (10, 2, 4, and 8 o'clock.) in the racket I strung it was a 16 main racket that skipped 7 and 9 head and throat those four corners are from about grommet hole 6 to 11 at the head and throat. If you use a normal pattern you string grommets 6 to 11 (either at the head or throat) consecutively. Tis put a lot of stress on two of the four weakest points in the frame. If I string it two pie normally I would tension 6, 8, and 10 strininging the mains followed immediately by 7, 9, and 11 for the first three crosses. 6 strings in 6 grommets within about 2" of frame space. That's a lot of pressure on those corners.

I you use my this new method (strininging two piece) you will tension strings in grommets 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, 13 etc gradually moving the stress down the racket. At the end you tension 11, 9, and 7. I agree top down is better but not necessarily from the top cross down.

I need to make another video showing the knot and the two piece pattern using this method. I will do that tonight.

EDIT: Won't get a chance to finish that video tonight will be at least tomorrow.

Channy 03-19-2013 07:59 PM

Hi Irvin, your pattern is remind me to my own string pattern. it pretty the same with your new string pattern. only the different is your string pattern is started at 4th cross from bottom (in your video) or from top if the last main finish at the top of the racket.

my own string pattern for the short side is only 1st at the bottom or the top (depend on where the last main end). and the long side is the rest of the cross.

my pattern is more simple but it take much stress of the racket at 8 and 4 a clock... I would like to make a video of it but my english is not good. I am from Indonesia. if I use my bahasa I don't think anyone would understand.

I use this pattern to avoid last main tie off. so the tie off string would be at cross string.

BTW thank's for the new insight. I will try it the next my string broke.

I never thought would start the cross at 4th cross. and your new pattern answer the problem with new graphene speed and instinct that last 2 main is shared grommet with 2 first cross.

Thanks again Irvin.

Irvin 03-20-2013 03:25 AM

I used to do just what you are talking about for rackets that end at the top. use the short side for the top one or two crosses. But I believe that presents a problem when there is a short section of frame supporting the bend from the long side to the crosses. Your long side goes from (with the racket I used) grommet 10 to 9 or 10 to 11. 9 and 11 are cross grommet holes spaced a normal distance apart while 10 has short spacing to either. But I got this ides doing just what you're talking abut and wondered how I could avoid that short transition, keep the tie off lengths of string on the outside of the frame as short as possible, and avoid all hard weaves.


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