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-   -   Gamma Progression II 602 Vs. Klippermate (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=458320)

Praprad 03-20-2013 06:01 PM

Gamma Progression II 602 Vs. Klippermate
 
Just as the title suggests, what is the pros and cons of both and how different is the Klippermate from the Gamma Progression II 602? I've strung some racquets using my friends Gamma Progression II 602 with relative ease and was wondering which would be a better buy.

jgrushing 03-21-2013 03:56 AM

As a Klippermate owner for over twenty years, I absolutely love it. That being said, I think that if you string lots of poly, the ratchet might make things a little easier. For synthetic and multis, I think the KM cam gripper is faster and easier once you've gotten the hang of it.

The durability of the KM is inarguable.

Both will do a fine job. Buy the one you think suits you and start saving money!

max 03-21-2013 06:15 AM

I agree with Mr. Rushing above.

It matters not to me, because poly's not my bag. Never use it. I've strung poly with the Kmate okay, but poly's probably tough to do in a dropweight generally.

anubis 03-21-2013 06:21 AM

OP: You mean the Gamma 602 that does NOT have fixed clamps? If so, you will notice no difference. I suggest getting the klippermate over the 602. Both have flying clamps, and the klippermate is cheaper and well proven.

However, if you really want to take your stringing to the next level, I suggest the Gamma 602-fc. That has fixed clamps. You will notice a huge increase in your stringing consistency when you move up to fixed clamps. Not only are they more accurate, but they are also faster to use.

max 03-21-2013 06:24 AM

Oh yes! Fixed clamps, particularly of steel, would be great!

I bought my Kmate about 15 years ago, never having previously strung, but the past two years I've been wishing I'd upped by Trial Risk at the time and purchased a machine with fixed clamps.

The dropweight method is reliable, and I'm not working for a tennis club, so time isn't such an anxious factor for me.

Irvin 03-21-2013 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by max (Post 7292833)
Oh yes! Fixed clamps, particularly of steel, would be great!

I bought my Kmate about 15 years ago, never having previously strung, but the past two years I've been wishing I'd upped by Trial Risk at the time and purchased a machine with fixed clamps.

The dropweight method is reliable, and I'm not working for a tennis club, so time isn't such an anxious factor for me.

I would have to agree with Max here. The problem with flying clamps is they are fixed meaning there is a fixed distance between the clamping surfaces. If that distance accommodates the distance between the strings in your racket, good flying clamps are great. If they don't, not so good. that should call them May West clamps with a twist.

When they're good they're very good, when they're bad they're not. I don't think flying clamps deserve the bad rep they get though. If you plan to string more than a racket a day go for fixed clamps.

eelhc 03-21-2013 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by max (Post 7292833)
Oh yes! Fixed clamps, particularly of steel, would be great!

I bought my Kmate about 15 years ago, never having previously strung, but the past two years I've been wishing I'd upped by Trial Risk at the time and purchased a machine with fixed clamps.

The dropweight method is reliable, and I'm not working for a tennis club, so time isn't such an anxious factor for me.

Interesting... I have a fixed clamp, crank tensioner machine now and have come to the conclusion that Stringway floating clamps (double + triple or 2 triples) will do a faster/better job than most of the entry/midrange fixed clamp machines. I am now in the process of purchasing a dropweight, floating clamp machine.

That said... the Klippermate clamps are supposed to be very good too. What is particular makes you want a fixed clamp machine?

Praprad 03-21-2013 05:54 PM

I had used a gamma progression II with two flying clamps, no fixed.
I will only string my and maybe my friends' racquets so roughly 6-8 racquets a month, I use poly most of the time but not always and did not find trouble stringing it in the gamma progression,
What do you guys think I should buy?

max 03-22-2013 07:11 AM

Ouch! I go around in circles when it comes to machines for very low quantities of stringing.

While an expensive machine would be fun, at the end of the day, my conscience tells me the Kmate's going to more efficiently fit the bill.

You know, the other variables are these: if you're a young guy, say, 20 or so, you'll be using the machine for 50 years. So get a good one. If you're old, you're going to get much less use of it.

If you like tinkering with stringing---I mean, really, really enjoy it in itself and for itself, as a hobby in its own right---well, get the expensive one.

But if you're just a tennis player doing your own frame and perhaps those of friends, the Kmate does the job.

eelhc 03-22-2013 10:12 AM

I picked up Tennis again last year after a 25+ year hiatus. I have 3 racquets presently. 1 for USTA play, 1 backup for USTA and 1 sandbox/experiment. I bought a used stringing machine at the beginning of the year since I wanted to experiment with different strings and stringing methods.

My club charges $20 + cost of the string. So after ~15 string jobs one would think the machine would pay for itself but in reality I would not string my racquets as often if I didn't have a machine ( I only break strings once in a while) so there really is no net cost advantage for me.... It's just an affordable to experiment.

It's also a hobby for me. There is a zen-like relaxing aspect to working with one's hands. In all of the sports I've played/play a little more than casually, I've always maintained my own equipment. Re-gripping and re-shafting golf clubs, tuning skis... (I think those I actually save $$$).

I also string for some friends now but I never take cash from friends for doing a favor. My fee is the cost of the strings and a 6 pack of malted beverage or a bottle of inexpensive table wine, their choice (I charge the same fees for repairing electronics, computers).

That all said... it's also an excuse to purchase another tool.

anubis 03-22-2013 07:33 PM

If I was still paying for stringing, I would have paid around $1,000 in stringing fees this past year. Buying a stringer was the best investment I've ever made in this sport. Even more so than buying racquets themselves! :)

eelhc 03-23-2013 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anubis (Post 7296442)
If I was still paying for stringing, I would have paid around $1,000 in stringing fees this past year. Buying a stringer was the best investment I've ever made in this sport. Even more so than buying racquets themselves! :)

I have to be honest with myself... My Stringing machine is not saving me any money since i string 2~3x more often than I would if I didn't have a machine.

struggle 03-23-2013 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eelhc (Post 7297156)
I have to be honest with myself... My Stringing machine is not saving me any money since i string 2~3x more often than I would if I didn't have a machine.

but you are no longer playing with dead strings, so it's hard to really factor
the savings, etc.......unless you re-string the same frequency at home or at a "shop".

add in the "experimenting".......

Irvin 03-23-2013 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eelhc (Post 7297156)
I have to be honest with myself... My Stringing machine is not saving me any money since i string 2~3x more often than I would if I didn't have a machine.

How close do you have to travel to get your racket string and pick it up? How soon can you get your racket back? If you don't like a new string how long would you have to wait for them to break? How much does it cost you to try out a new string? Are you comfortable with the quality of your present stringer's services? There is a lot to be said for doing your own work.

Praprad 03-23-2013 10:18 AM

What are the advantages of fixed clamps vs flying?
Also what difference will the klippermate's 2 point mount be from the gamma's 6 point mount?

Irvin 03-23-2013 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praprad (Post 7297416)
What are the advantages of fixed clamps vs flying?
Also what difference will the klippermate's 2 point mount be from the gamma's 6 point mount?

(Swivel) Fixed clamps are just easier and faster to use. One big advantage is you can clamp any string without distorting it.

One of the objectives of stringing a racket is not to distort it in the process. Doesn't it make sense that the more support you give the racket while stringing the better off you will be? Would you rather have a splint tied to you arm or a cast while a broken bone healed?

You may want to check out this thread:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=213946

jgrushing 03-23-2013 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praprad (Post 7297416)
What are the advantages of fixed clamps vs flying?
Also what difference will the klippermate's 2 point mount be from the gamma's 6 point mount?

There is no inherent problem with KM's two point mount. Carefully mount the racquet and you'll never distort a frame. I doubt there are many people who've strung more racquets on a KM than me. The mounting system is completely sufficient.

jgrushing 03-24-2013 06:02 AM

Irvin, not arguing with you on the 6 point mounting systems but just a question. Correct me if I'm wrong. Most 6 point mounts have 2 inside and 4 outside supports. In stringing a racquet, the force is generally inward. My opinion is that the outside supports mostly keep the racquet firmly in place, not sliding from side to side as tension is pulled. I understand that the supports can also minimize outward distortion which would generally result from weakness in the frame. The frames are designed to handle the pressures. This can be shown by the fact that thousands and thousands of racquets are routinely strung on machines with two point mounting.

There is constant implication on the board that two point is inferior and will damage racquets long term. It's just not so. I have one of my racquets in my rotation that is nine years old (Volkl V1 Classic) that has probably been strung at least 50 times, probably way more, on a a Klippermate. It looks and plays as well as any of the three V1s that I have.

Irvin 03-24-2013 06:50 AM

I agree with you 100%. I have no issues at all with a 2 point mount. But as you string the mains the head will contract and the sides will bulge out. I can see this very easily on my 6 point. Once the mains are in it will take a great deal of pressure to open up the side supports because of the distortion even though they are no very tight when the racket is mounted. After the crosses are strung again it is very easy to open the side supports.

I also feel that stringing 3 mains on side one, 6 mains on side two, then finishing side one, and finishing side two never getting more than three mains ahead will distort the racket more than never getting more than one ahead on either side. But that distortion is so small it is negligible.

A six point not only holds the racket out with the top and bottom supports, and in with the side supports. A six point also supports the racket more to prevent twisting. More often than not the tension is pulled on a racket from below the level of the stringbed which tend to twist the racket more so at the 3 and 9 positions than from the 6 and 12 the way the racket is mounted. But if you have a graphite racket it bends right back as soon as tension is removed.

I believe a six point provides more support for the frame. But a two point provides a lot more access to the stringing area. There are advantages and disadvantages to each. The physical stringing process takes me about 15-20 minutes and more with gut or poly strings. I think stringing a racket fast provides a lower quality string job. I think a racket is put under a lot of stress when stringing. I think a screw driven method of moving the top and bottom standards from the bottom provides a better 6 - 12 mount support maintaining the integrity of the racket so I prefer a six point.

max 03-24-2013 08:48 AM

Irvin: you make a good case for six-point. I find it interesting that Kmate explains the rationale that 2-pt. may be a better way to go, which is that racquet flexing during stringing is natural and is always going to happen, and that allowing this flexing movement is done better by two-points, since the six-point allows racquet hoop crunching to take place since the 6-pts. inhibit movement.

I'm no judge. On the superficial level my gut is to think more is better and six thus is better. . . but perhaps allowing rather than squelching racquet flex is better for the frame.


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