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-   -   Having your serve clocked is depressing (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=459145)

HunterST 03-28-2013 08:00 PM

Having your serve clocked is depressing
 
Got my radar out for a few serves. A few years ago I served in the 80s and I've improved a lot since then. was hoping for low 100s. Now, I have a pretty big serve. It forces errors and my opponents say consistently that it's tough.

Fastest serve: 88 mph

had several in upper 70s and a few in the lower 80s. I only hit about 5 serves, and I think I could have gotten a little higher number, but geeze. Even the WTA players who struggle with their serves serve harder than me.

Overdrive 03-28-2013 08:05 PM

You are only a rec player. We all are.

The most important thing is that your serve is a weapon.

:)

WildVolley 03-28-2013 08:17 PM

If you aren't serving that 88mph with a fair amount of spin, then, yeah, you aren't hitting a very big serve.

Good form and a small change in timing should allow you to push it up over 100mph assuming no physical injuries or old age.

I think it is worthwhile to work on more pace as long as you warm-up first and keep the numbers hit reasonable. Also, do exercises to protect the shoulder. If things click an extra 15mph might not be too hard to find. Good luck.

zapvor 03-28-2013 08:30 PM

haha last year i got clocked at 72? but it was in the serving cage at citi open

Chas Tennis 03-28-2013 08:31 PM

Here is a discussion of some measured service speeds for college and high school players. There are other service speed discussions from about the same time frame, around 2007.

http://blog.tennisspeed.com/2007/11/...vey-of-us.html

boojay 03-28-2013 09:12 PM

I bought a radar gun a few years ago and left it at my local club for the players to try out and people were consistently getting results lower than they expected.

Of course nearly everyone thought they could serve at least 100 mph, but the reality was they were serving in the 70s to, at most, the 80s. Even my doubles partner who has a pretty decent serve was only getting in the 90s.

The number of folks who managed to achieve three digits were countable on one hand, but they were the best players we had around at the time (except me, for some reason I managed to do it too).

Moral of the story, most of us overestimate our abilities, it's human nature.

TomT 03-28-2013 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterST (Post 7311342)
Got my radar out for a few serves. A few years ago I served in the 80s and I've improved a lot since then. was hoping for low 100s. Now, I have a pretty big serve. It forces errors and my opponents say consistently that it's tough.

Fastest serve: 88 mph

had several in upper 70s and a few in the lower 80s. I only hit about 5 serves, and I think I could have gotten a little higher number, but geeze.

I bet if you were more warmed up, and hit a few more serves, then the numbers would be higher.

What's your NTRP? If you're forcing errors and it's good enough to get comments from your opponents, then no worries. You must be doing something right.

Anyway, serve speed measurements, especially non-professional ones, are very 'iffy'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterST (Post 7311342)
Even the WTA players who struggle with their serves serve harder than me.

I don't think that's true. I've seen some women's second serves clocked, in tournaments, in the low 60s. First serves, in the 70s. Which is significantly slower than even my average serve, first or second ... and I'm a 3.0 level player.

I suspect that your serve is actually quite a good one. Post some videos.

TomT 03-28-2013 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chas Tennis (Post 7311372)
Here is a discussion of some measured service speeds for college and high school players. There are other service speed discussions from about the same time frame, around 2007.

http://blog.tennisspeed.com/2007/11/...vey-of-us.html

Thanks for the link. Very interesting.

NLBwell 03-28-2013 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chas Tennis (Post 7311372)
Here is a discussion of some measured service speeds for college and high school players. There are other service speed discussions from about the same time frame, around 2007.

http://blog.tennisspeed.com/2007/11/...vey-of-us.html

Interesting that the difference between first and second serves was similar no matter what the level of the player. One of the reasons my serve is so effective is the multiple speeds at which I hit. I pride myself on how slowly I can hit an effective serve - almost all the energy going into spin. Combining that with the flat heater and the many other types of serves I hit is very effective.
Mixing up speeds can be as useful a tool as mixing up placement and spin.

TomT 03-28-2013 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLBwell (Post 7311449)
Interesting that the difference between first and second serves was similar no matter what the level of the player. One of the reasons my serve is so effective is the multiple speeds at which I hit. I pride myself on how slowly I can hit an effective serve - almost all the energy going into spin. Combining that with the flat heater and the many other types of serves I hit is very effective.
Mixing up speeds can be as useful a tool as mixing up placement and spin.

Yes, for sure. Serving is like baseball pitching. Other than the freaks with inordinately fast serves (pitches), the most effective are those who vary speed and placement in such a way that it's a continual challenge for the receiver (batter) to anticipate what's coming and where it will be coming to.

Govnor 03-29-2013 04:51 AM

I've given up any hope of having a big serve. I just don't have the body for it. If I could just get a nice consistent serve that was a weapon more than a liability at my level, I'd be happy enough.

tennis_balla 03-29-2013 04:57 AM


luvforty 03-29-2013 05:16 AM

location is probably 70% of the serve, speed 30%

psv255 03-29-2013 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterST (Post 7311342)
Got my radar out for a few serves. A few years ago I served in the 80s and I've improved a lot since then. was hoping for low 100s. Now, I have a pretty big serve. It forces errors and my opponents say consistently that it's tough.

Fastest serve: 88 mph

To be fair, receiving an 85+ mph serve, if placed within a foot or two of each line, is not easy to return for most 4.0- players.

Is your radar the SpeedTrac? In that case, you can safely add another 5% to each serve clocked, as it measures the speed of the ball as it approaches the device rather than right at contact. Doesn't change much, but the difference gets larger as you serve faster.

Speed will come from proper timing; personally, I instantly lose 20 mph on my flats if I lose my rhythm. Keep at it.

dak95_00 03-29-2013 05:37 AM

I LOVE this thread! People always over estimate their greatness. I believe it's human nature.

I used to work at a golf shop making custom clubs. Multiple times each day I'd have guys come in looking for a new driver. Before I'd have them measured on any sort of device or see them swing I'd ask the following:
1) What are your average scores for 18?
2) How far do you hit your drives now in the air w/o roll?
3) What iron do you hit from 150 yards?

Without fail, I'd get the same answers each time:
1) 90-95
2) 260-275 yards
3) 8 or 9 iron.

I'd just shake their hand and show them our where our putters and wedges wedges were located. They'd almost always change their tune and insist they could become more consistent.

At the same time, I was working with a number of Ohio State golfers who'd go on to play on professional tours and had played many rounds of golf with them. They were hitting the ball in the range of the numbers the avg hackers were claiming to hit. This was the early 90s and all of these guys were claiming to be near professional player standards. It's simply not true!

The same goes for tennis! Agassi had trouble serving at 80 mph and couldn't hit 90 when he came on tour as a teen. He was still awesome compared to nearly everyone. Sure, he didn't have a Becker, Sampras, or professional level serve but he still had plenty of game. I play against guys who hit it hard. They still aren't hitting it over 100. I bet I see only a couple of guys in a season who do. I seriously doubt there are many people at or near 50+ that can hit a 100 mph serve! I'd go double or nothing on any bets that you can't hit 100+ too!

gmatheis 03-29-2013 05:44 AM

You all do realize that the way the pros measure serve speed and using a radar gun are usually very different.

Pros serve speed is measured just after the ball leaves their racket

Radar guns are usually set up to measure when the ball has almost traveled to the net.

Now that 88mph serve, if it was measured closer to the net, was most likely high 90s the way the pros measure serve speed.

luvforty 03-29-2013 05:47 AM

dak is spot on about the exaggeration factor - usually about 25-30%, between the golf drive distance and the tennis serve speed. (except coach Lee is probably on the high end of the spectrum with 50% exaggeration).

this is no different from male animals open up their feathers to look bigger, to the female or the enemy.

on the other hand, distance/speed is not even the most important factor.... I'd take 85mph hitting both corners or curving into the body, over 100mph but right into the receivers strike zone.... and I'd take 225 drive down the middle over the 275 in the trees.

luvforty 03-29-2013 05:51 AM

now think about this - which situation do you prefer to be in -

1) you are at net, guarding the entire width of the court, opp hits 85mph forehand passing shot;

2) you are at baseline, guarding a box about 1/4 the size of the court, opp hits 105 serve;

imo 2) is actually easier, you have a LOT of time..... speed is nothing without location.

krz 03-29-2013 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmatheis (Post 7311912)
You all do realize that the way the pros measure serve speed and using a radar gun are usually very different.

Pros serve speed is measured just after the ball leaves their racket

Radar guns are usually set up to measure when the ball has almost traveled to the net.

Now that 88mph serve, if it was measured closer to the net, was most likely high 90s the way the pros measure serve speed.

This. Pro serve speeds are measured at nearly the point of contact, relative to pro speeds your serve would register much faster than 88MPH.

Hope I made you feel better :)

HunterST 03-29-2013 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomT (Post 7311429)
I bet if you were more warmed up, and hit a few more serves, then the numbers would be higher.

What's your NTRP? If you're forcing errors and it's good enough to get comments from your opponents, then no worries. You must be doing something right.

Anyway, serve speed measurements, especially non-professional ones, are very 'iffy'.

I don't think that's true. I've seen some women's second serves clocked, in tournaments, in the low 60s. First serves, in the 70s. Which is significantly slower than even my average serve, first or second ... and I'm a 3.0 level player.

I suspect that your serve is actually quite a good one. Post some videos.

Thanks for the vote of confidence! I guess I don't pay too much attention to wta serve speeds, so I feel better if they're getting firsts in the 70s.

Here's a video from 2 years ago when I was hitting in the 80s. Thought I had improved significantly, but the numbers are the same!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afIY9QeYnWM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psv255 (Post 7311872)
To be fair, receiving an 85+ mph serve, if placed within a foot or two of each line, is not easy to return for most 4.0- players.

Is your radar the SpeedTrac? In that case, you can safely add another 5% to each serve clocked, as it measures the speed of the ball as it approaches the device rather than right at contact. Doesn't change much, but the difference gets larger as you serve faster.

Speed will come from proper timing; personally, I instantly lose 20 mph on my flats if I lose my rhythm. Keep at it.

Thanks for the reply! Yeah, it's a speedtrac. I've heard that it gives a little lower reading, so that helps. Serves in the 90s don't sound as bad.

I definitely agree with the timing thing. Sometimes with the radar I'm so focused on hitting hard I get tense and out of rhythm.


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