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-   -   The Oscar Wagner forehand (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=459219)

Djoker91 03-29-2013 04:05 PM

The Oscar Wagner forehand
 
So I've had a massive amount of trouble with the modern topspin forehand. I always hit them way to high and loopy. Could never get low trajectory. I just watched the Oscar Wagner bit on the "pulling across motion" being the key. Has anyone had success with that certain feel? I haven't tried and and I am looking to do it tomorrow now that the weather is nice. Will this be the key I've been missing? I DO have good mechanics, my forehand resembles tipservic's. Just been missing this one thing. Always missing long and loopy. With this cure that?

SFrazeur 03-29-2013 04:12 PM

See a recommend tennis pro in your area.

-SF

tennis_balla 03-29-2013 05:20 PM


user92626 03-29-2013 08:13 PM

Oh my goshhhh..that simpson gif really cracks me up..so hilarious..Thanks, tennis balla

sureshs 03-30-2013 10:45 AM

Don't force the pulling across motion. You still need to maintain the ratio of brushing up versus hitting through that you need for a particular stroke, and also the desired direction. Focus on getting these variables correct, rather than thinking where your arm should land up. There is a myth that all kinds of spin and pace and placement can be achieved with the same swing across the body. It may be possible in theory for optimally arriving balls, but watch the pros. They will often use a pronounced wrist flip to place a ball wide on the forehand, noticeably move their weight forward for a DTL shot, switch to a reverse FH on a wider ball, etc. They also adjust the swing speed, making it slower when the confidence level is lower. Famous ex-coaches who were formerly pro players have pointed out that most club players will never hit all shots with the fast across-the-body swing - they will only produce weak shots and injure themselves. But all juniors, college players, and pros can do it. They have the basic fast across swing in place, and adjust around it. But don't think it is easy as some may try to make you believe. It is a slow journey.

T-T-T 03-30-2013 11:23 AM

The Oscar Wegner forehand finish is basically what both Nadal and Federer do (Nadal when he finishes across the chest properly).
I find that this finish helps my students hit the ball more aggressive but with control and topspin. What Wegner mentions is you should feel you are pulling the racket back into your body using your bicep muscle while staying loose. Most of my pupils really improve when they start trying to feel the bicep pull

tennis_balla 03-30-2013 11:29 AM

This just gets better and better. I'm trying hard, I really am not to respond.

sureshs 03-30-2013 11:53 AM

balla likes to enjoy himself watching amateurs dispense free and faulty advice

tennis_balla 03-30-2013 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7314786)
balla likes to enjoy himself watching amateurs dispense free and faulty advice

Not at all, lots of good advice in here. It just didn't take long for another one of these threads to pop up did it.

sureshs 03-30-2013 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-T-T (Post 7314743)
If you want more help on the forehand visit my website and get in touch, I'd be more than happy to help you out
http://www.top-tennis-training.org/http://www.top-tennis-training.org/

I got into the site. Seems to be UK-based. But it does not mention any names of pros (like you) who are running it.

When I get some time, I will go over the free tips section.

So the paid services are stroke analysis and more videos of pros for comparison?

TheCheese 03-30-2013 01:28 PM

What he says isn't literally what happens during a forehand. What it does it make people get the feel for hitting a certain way and it definitely helps for some people.

Djoker91 03-30-2013 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennis_balla (Post 7314797)
Not at all, lots of good advice in here. It just didn't take long for another one of these threads to pop up did it.

Listen bro, I don't know what the attitude is about. Excuse me for liking the wonderful sport of tennis enough to want to reach out an improve. Jesus bro...

tennis_balla 03-30-2013 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djoker91 (Post 7315039)
Listen bro, I don't know what the attitude is about. Excuse me for liking the wonderful sport of tennis enough to want to reach out an improve. Jesus bro...

Bro, I wasn't commenting on your orignal post, bro. You should research on how professionals hit forehands, especially the top 4. The Wegner forehand has been discussed here, rather beaten to death for the past 4 years or so. That dead horse was beaten so many times it wasn't even recognizable anymore.

Its too bad a lot of those threads were deleted by TW because there was a wealth of information in them, but almost 80% of it was useless arguing which is why it got shut down unfortunately. People took things very personally and things got way out of hand. This is why I posted what I did, a not this again. It had nothing to do with you personally.

If the Wegner method works for you, then great. However, if you believe pros hit their forehands like in this video then...well...that's your opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYYc-bn5vz4

sureshs 03-30-2013 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennis_balla (Post 7315071)
there was a wealth of information in them

I don't think so. They were always about best-case forehands, and almost nothing else. The discussion was always about whether to call something classical or modern. There have been any other useful threads about the nuances of the stroke and real practical advice from a variety of people.

TheCheese 03-31-2013 12:17 AM

Djoker, I suggest reading the tennisspeed blog articles about the forehand.

tennis_balla 03-31-2013 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7315384)
I don't think so. They were always about best-case forehands, and almost nothing else. The discussion was always about whether to call something classical or modern. There have been any other useful threads about the nuances of the stroke and real practical advice from a variety of people.

The stuff that was posted from all sides was good. 5163, Wegner, Ash, Yandell etc. I didn't agree with all of it, but at times there was quality things posted to learn from. Sadly it was all buried underneath tons of arguments and crap and one poster who wouldn't leave Wegner alone. ;-)
Agree with it or not at least it was backed by people who are professionals in the sport and not someone posting random diagrams, physics formulas and theories like whats been happening in here lately. I don't agree with a lot of what Oscar teaches, however I would like the opportunity to possibly meet him and see in action and ask him face to face what his methodology is all about.

arche3 03-31-2013 06:43 AM

God forbid we abandon little pics with equations and angles of racket face and rec players theories on advanced tennis. The atp would never reached new heights without ttw forum coaches.

Nevermind the fact that oscar actually taught pro players. He can't possibly have any value or insight.

sureshs 03-31-2013 08:52 AM

Most of the people who post their links don't talk cra** about other coaches by name (those who don't post here) and get an army of people to back them up with pseudo posts and threads, and multiple usernames. Neither do they try to derail every thread to insert their own references there and twist the discussions to introduce their product, bullying anyone who will not agree with their classification of strokes.

It is a matter of common sense and of degree, as always. Someone who leaves a card for a service outside your door and someone who calls you day and night and bangs on your door at midnight are not comparable.

mightyrick 03-31-2013 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djoker91 (Post 7313364)
So I've had a massive amount of trouble with the modern topspin forehand. I always hit them way to high and loopy. Could never get low trajectory... I DO have good mechanics, my forehand resembles tipservic's. Just been missing this one thing. Always missing long and loopy. With this cure that?

Well, I went from hitting a very flat driving forehand to hitting a heavy topspin forehand recently. I had the same problem as you.

Put flatly, the problem is that your prep and footwork sucks. You probably are preparing way too late and out of position for the shot.

The one thing I've noticed with the heavy topspin forehand is how much more it emphasizes the need for accurate positioning of the feet and the importance of a consistent and accurate contact point.

If your preparation foot and positioning is off, you will end up compensating with a poor swing. Ball contact is either way too far out front, or way too low, or too much beside the body.

Split step the second the ball hits the opponents racquet. When the ball comes off, start to move and prepare. If you wait longer than this, then unless the ball comes right to you -- perfectly -- your stroke is going to have a lot of troubles.

Good luck.

arche3 03-31-2013 10:44 AM

Back on topic.
1) oscar never bad mouthed other coaches. He just does not think much of their instruction.
2) oscar never posted under various alaises.
3) suresh is butt hurt because oscar made light of john yandel.
4) John yandel was the first person to realise tennis balls slowed down at the bounce. And oscar never gave jy fealty on that fact so that's why suresh hates all things wegner.

Oh...

5) after trying the wegner pull back it does not work for me. I see what he is trying to say. And I see some of that active bicep in some atp fhs. But I don't really think it is what they do.


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