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-   -   Bending your wrist while serving? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=459275)

luishcorreia 03-30-2013 09:54 AM

Bending your wrist while serving?
 
Hi.

What si the effect of bending or cocking your wrist while serving?

I noticed that when I do this my serve is way... way better. More spin, more power and more consistent.

I grab the racquet with a continental grip anyway but my wrist is more bent. A bit like Raonic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klR6AfFR70c

What is the effect? More spin? More snap through the contact point? I never heard anyone talk about this.

luvforty 03-30-2013 09:59 AM

notice his trigger finger.... that's where the power comes from... 1 finger!

luishcorreia 03-30-2013 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvforty (Post 7314559)
notice his trigger finger.... that's where the power comes from... 1 finger!

ok. thank you for your taking the time..

TomT 03-30-2013 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvforty (Post 7314559)
notice his trigger finger.... that's where the power comes from... 1 finger!

... and a beautiful service motion, and being 6'5"? :)

TomT 03-30-2013 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luishcorreia (Post 7314547)
Hi.

What si the effect of bending or cocking your wrist while serving?

I noticed that when I do this my serve is way... way better. More spin, more power and more consistent.

I grab the racquet with a continental grip anyway but my wrist is more bent. A bit like Raonic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klR6AfFR70c

What is the effect? More spin? More snap through the contact point? I never heard anyone talk about this.

I don't know, but I don't think it's important. If you notice in the video, it becomes aligned with the forearm (beginning at about 0:17 in the video) during the evolution of the service anyway. Maybe it has some effect like the "pat the dog" think with forehands.

If it works for you, if you feel it's causing improved serving, then of course go with it. But, yeah, I've never heard any talk about this either.

SystemicAnomaly 03-30-2013 11:20 AM

Which wrist action are you referring to? Roanic, Roddick and some others flex the wrist on the preparation (prior to the trophy phase). However, cocking the wrist on the serve usually refers to a wrist action after the trophy phase -- i.e., the radial deviation and wrist extension seen during the racket head drop and the early part of the upward swing to the ball. The wrist uncocks on the way up to the ball (to a fairly neutral position at contact).

LeeD 03-31-2013 09:19 AM

I got one for you.
Lately, last 20 years, I've been prepping with an aligned wrist.
3 weeks ago, heading back towards heavier rackets, I used my old prep (from 1977) of a bent FORWARD wrist, so the racket sort of wraps around the front of my body on prep, pointing to the right service line, me lefty.
Serves were for sure, bigger! More RHS. Tiring, hard for me to do repeatedly.
Instead of prebending to load like you'd think, I'd prebend the opposite way to get more rackethead loop for faster speeds.

luishcorreia 03-31-2013 01:00 PM

You mean.. Opening the wrist? Is that possible?

luishcorreia 03-31-2013 01:02 PM

What I was doing was rolling the wrist like raonic - see video.

I feel I get more spin on the serve, Judy like using a more extreme western grip on the forehand

LeeD 03-31-2013 01:17 PM

Does Milos "roll" his wrist? Or does he use an eastern backhand grip? And those serves, were they 150 missiles, or 90 mph top/twists?

luishcorreia 03-31-2013 02:29 PM

Raonic does not have the wrist aligned with the forearm.. So it looks to me that he has a continental grip

Chas Tennis 03-31-2013 05:41 PM

Raonic Wrist before and After Impact
 
Here is a video showing Raonic's wrist before and after impact. I would not call that a 'snap' or much wrist motion/bending at all. Serve type & whether a fault are unknown.

https://vimeo.com/63060339

Impact-


The best stop action single frame on Vimeo can be done by pressing the play-pause button as fast as possible. The arm passes by around second 7. (It took me 10+ tries to catch impact.)

From behind, high speed videos show that the angle between the forearm and racket (β=20-30 at impact) changes extremely rapidly as the arm rotates so that the forearm and racket become much more in a straight line (β~0) roughly a hundredth(?) of a second after impact. See other serve videos taken from behind.

SystemicAnomaly 04-01-2013 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luishcorreia (Post 7317129)
What I was doing was rolling the wrist like raonic - see video.

I feel I get more spin on the serve, Judy like using a more extreme western grip on the forehand

Still not clear. Is the "roll" you refer to the wrist flexion that Raonic employs prior to the trophy phase?

luishcorreia 04-01-2013 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SystemicAnomaly (Post 7319616)
Still not clear. Is the "roll" you refer to the wrist flexion that Raonic employs prior to the trophy phase?

Yes.,exactly that. Do not know why but i feel a difference when I do that, maybe its just racquet head speed increase due to the way the racquet travels trough the air?

LeeD 04-01-2013 07:49 PM

What I mention is exactly the same as you found....LAGGING the wrist behind the forearm.
It increases the loop at the back of trophy, so you start out with a little head start in swingspeed.
Like a loop forehand compared to a straight takeback forehand.

luishcorreia 04-02-2013 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 7319908)
What I mention is exactly the same as you found....LAGGING the wrist behind the forearm.
It increases the loop at the back of trophy, so you start out with a little head start in swingspeed.
Like a loop forehand compared to a straight takeback forehand.

It makes sense. It's a huge difference. It's like what u feel when I prepare early., and properly on my forehand.

SystemicAnomaly 04-03-2013 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luishcorreia (Post 7319640)
Yes.,exactly that. Do not know why but i feel a difference when I do that...

This type of action, a flexion prior to an extension (or vice versa), is sometimes seen in martial arts, other tennis strokes or other sports. It may have something to do with the stretch-shortening cycle (SSC). You might be able to incorporate something of a "whip effect" with this SSC action.

I suspect that there is an optimal amount of wrist flexion prior to the trophy phase. If you employ an excessive amount of flexion it could possibly be counterproductive. It might also complicate the timing of your racquet preparation.

trilix 04-04-2013 02:02 AM

According to Djoker it is essential for speed:

Free lesson with Djoker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0dldQUtRbo

LeeD 04-04-2013 12:44 PM

DJ is smoking pot. But he's a natural trained tennis player, can hit 125 in his sleep.
He doesn't really do the Milos thing we're talking about. Notice his prep position. His racket is perpendicular to the ground. Milo's has the hitting face facing left and upwards, maybe 20 degrees.
DJ forgot about his high elbow, high hitting hand finish, after striking the serve, while the racket is pointing at the ground.
Tanner and Goran would argue about high toss and jumping upwards. They low toss and jump INTO the court, as did Curren, Rusedski, and a few others.

SystemicAnomaly 04-04-2013 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trilix (Post 7324182)
According to Djoker it is essential for speed:

Free lesson with Djoker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0dldQUtRbo

I would take what Djoker says with a grain of salt. It is doubtful that he has really analyzed his own strokes. He is probably just parroting what he was told as a developing junior player.


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