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-   -   Stringing Question from a Non-Stringer (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=459583)

jojoreyes 04-02-2013 08:49 AM

Stringing Question from a Non-Stringer
 
My racquets are always strong with a full bed of synthetic gut. I notice that with some stringers my racquets come back with two tie-offs.....and with other stringers the same racquets come back with four tie-offs. Is either technique better than the other? Thanks

struggle 04-02-2013 09:04 AM

no, not really. some will claim otherwise but for the most part it doesn't matter.
4 knots = strung with 2 pieces of string, one for mains, one for crosses.
2 knots = strung with one long piece of string.
Generally, 2 piece (4 knots) is considered easier to do.

can you tell a difference otherwise?

jojoreyes 04-02-2013 09:10 AM

Thanks. No, I do not notice any significant differences (if anything the tension with four tie-offs seems greater than the tension with two tie-offs....even though they're both strung at 58 lbs.)

struggle 04-02-2013 09:38 AM

well, you can expect to get different "tensions" from different stringers as there are many variables. (they should all be close to what you "want" and playable, of course)

find one you like and stick with them, for consistency (hopefully, as that is the key in stringing.....mostly).

or.....start stringing on your own.

diredesire 04-02-2013 10:42 AM

If the tension seems greater with the 4 knot (two piece) guy, I'd ask what kind of machine they use and compare to the other. You may be strung on a different tensioner type, which would be a systematic inconsistency (not a bad thing, they're just different).

What frame are you using, also? It may void your warranty to have a frame strung with one piece, and COULD possibly indicate the level of care your stringer gives your equipment. Wilson/Babolat frames are OK to string bottom to top (officially), and most racquets have main (vertical) strings that end at the bottom of the frame (which implies crosses [horizontal strings] are strung bottom to top, which can be a warranty void situation -- although to be fair, I've never actually seen this happen).

jojoreyes 04-02-2013 10:59 AM

Thanks for the feedback. I'm playing with Dunlop Bio 200 racquets.

jim e 04-02-2013 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jojoreyes (Post 7321043)
Thanks for the feedback. I'm playing with Dunlop Bio 200 racquets.

The specs on your racquet, it can be strung as 1 piece or 2 piece.
Unless you specify a preference both ways are correct.

Most customers do not ask me for one way or another, so for consistancy, I typically string the majority of racquets as 2 piece (4 knots).
I still get a # of hybrid requests and those can only be done as 2 piece.

There are some racquets that are just a natural to string as one piece, and with no hybrid request those get a one piece job.

One string job can feel different from another, as mentioned different type of stringing machine used. One type machine will yield a slightly stiffer stringbed stiffness over the other type machine, and the % varies on the size of racquet and type of string used.

Tamiya 04-02-2013 10:31 PM

2-piece can have different tension mains vs crosses

Irvin 04-03-2013 02:50 AM

One piece can have different tension on the mains and crosses.

diredesire 04-03-2013 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvin (Post 7322142)
One piece can have different tension on the mains and crosses.

I hate having to convince people who don't know stringing about this, though... ;)

Irvin 04-03-2013 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvin (Post 7322142)
One piece can have different tension on the mains and crosses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by diredesire (Post 7322760)
I hate having to convince people who don't know stringing about this, though... ;)

That is quite evident from the test I made to showing the difference in the tensions of two strings when you're pulling around a friction point. But it is now clear to me that even people who know about stringing are not sure how this can happen.

beernutz 04-03-2013 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvin (Post 7322142)
One piece can have different tension on the mains and crosses.

How precisely can you control the tensions of the mains and crosses when they are different when using one piece stringing? It seems there would be some slippage around the friction point where you transition from mains to crosses causing the higher tension string to go down slightly and the lower tension string to go up slightly.

diredesire 04-03-2013 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beernutz (Post 7323216)
How precisely can you control the tensions of the mains and crosses when they are different when using one piece stringing? It seems there would be some slippage around the friction point where you transition from mains to crosses causing the higher tension string to go down slightly and the lower tension string to go up slightly.

Proportional stringing has tension differentials of large magnitudes from string to string, and experiments have shown to string movement around the friction points. It's an experiment you can try yourself at home, actually. I can't say for certain what the max delta is, but I'm confident you could hold a >10 lb differential around just about any reasonable bend (even more exaggerated on a main to cross transition).

Edit: I should note that the experiments made were: Post stringing, sharpie marks on every string with no movement shown. This isn't "lab grade," by any means, though. It's unfortunately very difficult to find individual tension shift over time -- so we stringers use movement.

Irvin 04-03-2013 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beernutz (Post 7323216)
How precisely can you control the tensions of the mains and crosses when they are different when using one piece stringing? It seems there would be some slippage around the friction point where you transition from mains to crosses causing the higher tension string to go down slightly and the lower tension string to go up slightly.

I agree with diredesire. I have heard that the USRSA made some lab type experiments and says you can do proportional stringing and the tension will not 'slip' from string to string. I ran my own test when questioned about the starting method I used for one piece stringing. When I pulled 58 lb tension on one string the tension on the connected string was 46 lb. that is about a 20% difference. If you are talking about a couple of pounds difference between two connected strings in a racket there is no possible way you can overcome the frame surface friction and have slippage.

My guess is if you want to string your crosses +/- 5 lbs different from the mains using one string it should work. BUT from reading the article by Tim in the last RSI magazine he said that pro players are notorious for tugging on the two outside mains. When they tug on those strings they will be more tension applied to the string and one may be slightly different than the other. Therefore I am with Tim two piece stringing is best.

Tamiya 04-03-2013 03:56 PM

You guys must make assumption of nice fresh soft grippy grommets.

I'm working with age-hardened brittle 20+yo plastics (nylon tube don't grip either)
or no grommet frames like MAX 200G, flaking paint slips even more.
With identical frames strung & left to mature for a few weeks, can't
detect difference with the 1 done with slighly tighter mains vs crosses.

I'm also not working with stiff polys, these can take a 'set' around bend
plus being less elastic would be less likely to equalise over time/use.

Irvin 04-03-2013 04:15 PM

Actually the racket I made the test on had older grommets but I doubt it would matter.

EDIT: I also did some tests once on a Prince O Port racket with nice smoth painted surfaces. The greater the bend the more the tension loss.

beernutz 04-03-2013 08:57 PM

Thanks Irvin and diredesire. Your explanations seem to make sense. I have never done proportional stringing so my questions probably reflect my ignorance. I appreciate you trying to answer my questions.

Tamiya 04-04-2013 07:14 AM

there's that fancy spreadsheet that calculates different tensions for
every string in the bed, if you're really keen...

diredesire 04-04-2013 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamiya (Post 7324530)
there's that fancy spreadsheet that calculates different tensions for
every string in the bed, if you're really keen...

Spreadsheet hosted on my webspace, for anyone interested:
http://diredesire.com/tennis/TW/Prop...lStringing.xls

The unfortunate thing is that there is no "calculated" values for string stiffness, and the output changes drastically based on string stiffness. The thread discussing this spreadsheet was lost 10-ish years ago on the old board. No one I've found has an archived copy with estimated string stiffness values :(

Tamiya 04-04-2013 09:20 AM

yup ideally you need elasticity independently measured for each & every string :( ... & probably every frame too.

More importantly need to be convinced that it actually makes noticeable
difference to your court performance to be worth the effort.


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