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-   -   I don't know why my shoulder hurts, it just does (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=460772)

PhxRacket 04-15-2013 07:14 AM

I don't know why my shoulder hurts, it just does
 
Whilst trying not to give in to time (and age) I have shoulder, lower back and infrequent elbow pain. Looking for stock stretching exercises that can help regain range of motion without minor pain. Or should I just live with it? BTW does glucosamine/chondroitin work for users? Or just the marketers?

ollinger 04-15-2013 07:44 AM

Nobody with good judgement can advise you until you get some diagnoses. You have the trifecta -- shoulder, lower back, and elbow -- and need to find out what the problems are before considering what might help them.

PhxRacket 04-15-2013 07:47 AM

Too bad I am not at the horsetrack?? I wasn't looking for a diagnoses, just some ideas for pre-match stretching.

ollinger 04-15-2013 08:20 AM

No, you were looking to find out if gluc/chondr is worth taking. That depends on the diagnosis.

PhxRacket 04-15-2013 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ollinger (Post 7344769)
No, you were looking to find out if gluc/chondr is worth taking. That depends on the diagnosis.

Ok. I see your point, but that was intended as a tongue-in-cheek reference to what some see as an overdependence on supplements with questionable efficacy.

charliefedererer 04-16-2013 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhxRacket (Post 7344618)
Whilst trying not to give in to time (and age) I have shoulder, lower back and infrequent elbow pain. Looking for stock stretching exercises that can help regain range of motion without minor pain. Or should I just live with it? BTW does glucosamine/chondroitin work for users? Or just the marketers?

For the shoulder, elbow and wrist, it is hard to beat the Thrower's Ten exercises:
http://www.muhlenberg.edu/pdf/main/a...throwers10.pdf

For your back pain, you may want to review the exercises in the book Pain Free by Pete Egoscue http://www.amazon.com/Pain-Free-Revo.../dp/0553379887

You also may want to review the currently running thread on low back pain
Anything actually work for low back pain? http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=455115

And the currently thread on Egoscue therapy:
"Pain Free" by Pete Egoscue http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=446105



I think you will find lots of information in those above threads that will be be very applicable to you.

The underlying theme is that when muscles (which are elastic) are week, they allow too much force to be applied to non-elastic tendons, joints and bones - resulting in inflammation and pain.

[The surprising thing is you don't have to be as strong as someone lifting heavy weights - just be "strong enough" all over to take the stress off the abused structures.]

I hope you find your "holy grail' of being pain free through exercise like so many others have.

Good luck!


[Of course if you are having severe persistent pain you need to get checked out medically.]

PhxRacket 04-16-2013 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliefedererer (Post 7346577)
For the shoulder, elbow and wrist, it is hard to beat the Thrower's Ten exercises:
http://www.muhlenberg.edu/pdf/main/a...throwers10.pdf

For your back pain, you may want to review the exercises in the book Pain Free by Pete Egoscue http://www.amazon.com/Pain-Free-Revo.../dp/0553379887

You also may want to review the currently running thread on low back pain
Anything actually work for low back pain? http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=455115

And the currently thread on Egoscue therapy:
"Pain Free" by Pete Egoscue http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=446105



I think you will find lots of information in those above threads that will be be very applicable to you.

The underlying theme is that when muscles (which are elastic) are week, they allow too much force to be applied to non-elastic tendons, joints and bones - resulting in inflammation and pain.

[The surprising thing is you don't have to be as strong as someone lifting heavy weights - just be "strong enough" all over to take the stress off the abused structures.]

I hope you find your "holy grail' of being pain free through exercise like so many others have.

Good luck!


[Of course if you are having severe persistent pain you need to get checked out medically.]


Great. Thanks. I will check these out.

Chas Tennis 04-16-2013 12:51 PM

Shoulder pain - you have not supplied much information on your shoulder pain.

Where is the pain?

When does the pain occur?

What motions cause the pain?

How long have you had the pain?

What is the longest period that you have taken off from tennis since you noticed the pain?

PhxRacket 04-16-2013 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chas Tennis (Post 7347428)
Shoulder pain - you have not supplied much information on your shoulder pain.

Where is the pain?

When does the pain occur?

What motions cause the pain?

How long have you had the pain?

What is the longest period that you have taken off from tennis since you noticed the pain?

I believe that the pain stems from a cycling accident and a partially separated, but stupidly untreated, shoulder. Or maybe I sleep funny? Or maybe I am old and years of unstretched use are haunting me? Who knows why? The pain is almost always at the top and towards the front. The pain is frequent. Most motions, including carrying heavy objects below my waist, cause some degree of pain. It has been two months, or nearly that long that I have has at least a twinge. The pain is NEVER searing. I don't take NSAIDs or use creams, just ice. I can't really take off from tennis as I have a 12 year old son who needs a "hitting partner" to keep his edge and I cannot afford to hire one in addition to camps, lessons and clinics. i would love to play age group tennis as helping my son to learn the game has reawakened the college-level competitor in me. I am trying to avoid a medical visit as I will not take pills. I would stretch or even do pt if it fit into my already jammed daily schedule.

Chas Tennis 04-17-2013 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhxRacket (Post 7347493)
I believe that the pain stems from a cycling accident ............................. Who knows why? The pain is almost always at the top and towards the front. ........................... I can't really take off from tennis as I have a 12 year old son who needs a "hitting partner" to keep his edge .................................................I am trying to avoid a medical visit ............................. I would stretch or even do pt if it fit into my already jammed daily schedule.

You have an undiagnosed shoulder injury. Tennis is stressful for the normal shoulder and much more stressful for an injured shoulder. There is a reasonable chance that it will not spontaneously heal but will progressively get worse.

If the injury involves tendons they can heal defectively if stressed while healing (even over a very short time). Research tendon healing times, TW and elsewhere. http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=442912

Location of the pain could be impingement, a common injury that often/usually gets worse with the same activity. The supraspinatus muscle-tendon is on the top and the most common location of shoulder impingement injury. I had mild tears of my supraspinatus tendon of my non-tennis arm probably from gym work. With use impingement tends to cause swelling and then the impingement gets worse. Research impingement. There are links on TW.

Sure you can take off from tennis and other stressful activity. A ball machine for you son?

You need to see a well qualified sports medicine Dr or other specialist and get a diagnosis as others have said.

PhxRacket 04-17-2013 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chas Tennis (Post 7348457)
You have an undiagnosed shoulder injury. Tennis is stressful for the normal shoulder and much more stressful for an injured shoulder. There is a reasonable chance that it will not spontaneously heal but will progressively get worse.

If the injury involves tendons they can heal defectively if stressed while healing (even over a very short time). Research tendon healing times, TW and elsewhere. http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=442912

Location of the pain could be impingement, a common injury that often/usually gets worse with the same activity. The supraspinatus muscle-tendon is on the top and the most common location of shoulder impingement injury. I had mild tears of my supraspinatus tendon of my non-tennis arm probably from gym work. With use impingement tends to cause swelling and then the impingement gets worse. Research impingement. There are links on TW.

Sure you can take off from tennis and other stressful activity. A ball machine for you son?

You need to see a well qualified sports medicine Dr or other specialist and get a diagnosis as others have said.

So, to be clear. My P.E. teacher was wrong all this time? I cannot "just walk it off?"

Chas Tennis 04-17-2013 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhxRacket (Post 7348685)
So, to be clear. My P.E. teacher was wrong all this time? I cannot "just walk it off?"

To be clear there is always uncertainty with diagnosed injuries and much more with undiagnosed injuries.

I don't think that I came to any conclusion on diagnosis or treatment other than to research your injury and see a medically qualified professional.

I doubt that PE teachers or physical trainers and others who have not been medically trained to an adequate level, could give a very reliable diagnose for a shoulder injury especially following a cycle accident. Physical therapist are medically trained but not to the level of Drs.

What do you intend to do if your son develops an injury?

BMC9670 04-17-2013 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhxRacket (Post 7347493)
I believe that the pain stems from a cycling accident and a partially separated, but stupidly untreated, shoulder. Or maybe I sleep funny? Or maybe I am old and years of unstretched use are haunting me? Who knows why? The pain is almost always at the top and towards the front. The pain is frequent. Most motions, including carrying heavy objects below my waist, cause some degree of pain. It has been two months, or nearly that long that I have has at least a twinge. The pain is NEVER searing. I don't take NSAIDs or use creams, just ice. I can't really take off from tennis as I have a 12 year old son who needs a "hitting partner" to keep his edge and I cannot afford to hire one in addition to camps, lessons and clinics. i would love to play age group tennis as helping my son to learn the game has reawakened the college-level competitor in me. I am trying to avoid a medical visit as I will not take pills. I would stretch or even do pt if it fit into my already jammed daily schedule.

Your pain location, frequency and limitations sound very much like mine before I was diagnosed with a SLAP tear, which is also common along with or following dislocation/separation. If your legs are fine, I would run, not walk, to the best ortho who specializes in shoulders I could find. Mine required surgery and 18 months of rehab before it felt good again.

PhxRacket 04-17-2013 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMC9670 (Post 7349296)
Your pain location, frequency and limitations sound very much like mine before I was diagnosed with a SLAP tear, which is also common along with or following dislocation/separation. If your legs are fine, I would run, not walk, to the best ortho who specializes in shoulders I could find. Mine required surgery and 18 months of rehab before it felt good again.

Just looked it up-Whoa! Time to schedule an exam/tests/etc. Thanks to all for your input.

RogueFLIP 04-17-2013 08:21 PM

You have pain in your shoulder....could be something, could be nothing.

IMO I think your best best is to see a physical therapist if you live in a state that has direct access and allows you to see one without the referral of a physician.

The PT can do a comprehensive evaluation and can determine and refer out to a MD if they think imaging is necessary (MRI, X-ray, etc).

They can palpate the soft tissue and bones, check for imbalances and restrictions which may contribute to your pain.

And they can treat you right then and there, show you some exercises/stretches that may be able to reduce your symptoms. They can watch you while you perform activities and can make adjustments/modifications if necessary.

I'm not sure your primary physician can do all that. Referral out to an orthopod or referral out to a PT!. Pain meds which will just mask the problem but you've already said you don't want pills.

If you go to the orthopedic MD, first off, good luck getting an appointment in the next few days since you are a non-emergency....sure, the ortho can also do an evaluation...maybe show you a exercise or stretch or two, but then what? If he's conservative, he'll do what....refer you to PT! Complain enough and he might send you for some tests....

So now you have to wait again for an appt for imaging tests.

And then wait for the results....then wait for the doc to get you in to discuss your results....if it's minor then hey let's try PT first.....sigh.

Best bang for your buck....see a PT....you can still also make an appt for the ortho if you want, but you'll probably be able to get a few sessions in before your MD appt. :)

Either way....get it checked out!

Good luck.

mozzer 04-21-2013 10:04 AM

http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/PDFs/Rehab_Shoulder_5.pdf
I struggled with shoulder pain for years, down the outside/top of my arm, these exercises have helped dramatically

Raul_SJ 04-22-2013 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ollinger (Post 7344769)
No, you were looking to find out if gluc/chondr is worth taking. That depends on the diagnosis.

Under what circumstances and diagnosis would gluc/chondr be worth taking?

The impression I get from many doctors are that it has not been medically proven to help with anything.

SystemicAnomaly 04-22-2013 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raul_SJ (Post 7361765)
Under what circumstances and diagnosis would gluc/chondr be worth taking?

The impression I get from many doctors are that it has not been medically proven to help with anything.

Many doctors do not consider anything outside of what is provided/promoted by large pharmaceutical companies. Try a search on the use of chondroitin and glucosamine sulfate for osteoarthritis. A number of sources, such as the Mayo Clinic and Medline, have suggested that the use of these substances could very well be effective for osteoarthritis. Here is one to get you started...

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/glu...nt-glucosamine

"Available evidence from randomized controlled trials supports the use of glucosamine sulfate in the treatment of osteoarthritis, particularly of the knee. It is believed that the sulfate moiety provides clinical benefit in the synovial fluid by strengthening cartilage and aiding glycosaminoglycan synthesis... glucosamine sulfate form is effective...

Glucosamine is commonly taken in combination with chondroitin, a glycosaminoglycan derived from articular cartilage. Use of complementary therapies, including glucosamine, is common in patients with osteoarthritis, and may allow for reduced doses of non-steroidal anti-inflammatory agents.
"


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