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-   -   USTA Mixed Doubs: Can one claim a lineup is "implicitly" exchanged? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=461390)

BabblingPsychopath 04-22-2013 07:20 AM

USTA Mixed Doubs: Can one claim a lineup is "implicitly" exchanged?
 
So, I know once a lineup is exchanged you cannot make changes, but ...

I would also imagine/suggest, that one could consider the lineup implicitly "exchanged" when, at match time, the pairings head out to their courts with their opponents to start the warmup.

Other than that, is there any validity to other actions implicitly locking your lineup?

Basically, if 5 minutes before match time we get a phone call that one of our players will be late (and need to forfeit a court), and we haven't exchanged lineups, and our warmup has only been on a single court with our own team, can the opposing captain insist that our lineup is "the lineup we came in with" / intended to use?

Cindysphinx 04-22-2013 07:35 AM

Beg your pardon?

If I understand, two of your players warmed up pre-match with two of their players, and now their captain insists that those four players must contest the match?

No. Heck, even if the line-up is exchanged and the players erroneously warm up on the wrong court, you could and should fix that provided the match hasn't started yet.

BabblingPsychopath 04-22-2013 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx (Post 7361087)
Beg your pardon?

If I understand, two of your players warmed up pre-match with two of their players, and now their captain insists that those four players must contest the match?

No. Heck, even if the line-up is exchanged and the players erroneously warm up on the wrong court, you could and should fix that provided the match hasn't started yet.

Cindy,

No, our players only warmed up with our players (on one court), and their players with their players. No lineup was exchanged.

5 minutes before the match, when we realized we had to default a court, we decided to change the pairing we had originally decided on, BEFORE a) turning over a lineup and b) heading onto the proper courts. They claimed we could not do that, and had to play with our "intended" lineup.

OrangePower 04-22-2013 08:04 AM

There is nothing implied about lineups or pairings based on who is warming up where. You are free to change your lineup as you wish right until you exchange with the other captain and get the matches going.

spot 04-22-2013 08:10 AM

The other captain should have gone through the formality of exchanging lineup cards if they would like to formally stop you from rearranging your lines.

Alchemy-Z 04-22-2013 08:47 AM

We always warm up same team for about 15min...about 5min to game time captain sends us to our courts and then we warm up another 5min with our opponents.

often if both teams do this we skip right to serving because everyone is warm.

cak 04-22-2013 08:58 AM

You are allowed to change the lineup right up until the lineup cards are exchanged. Doesn't matter who is warming up who before that.

I've also seen the case where after warmups and the lineup cards are exchanged but before the first point a player gets injured. Legally they were able to get another person from the team to play their position.

Cindysphinx 04-22-2013 09:04 AM

This demonstrates why captains and acting captains should always show up with a copy of the rules. Sheez.

blakesq 04-22-2013 09:14 AM

no. line-ups are set only after line ups are exchanged. anything else is pettiness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabblingPsychopath (Post 7361067)
So, I know once a lineup is exchanged you cannot make changes, but ...

I would also imagine/suggest, that one could consider the lineup implicitly "exchanged" when, at match time, the pairings head out to their courts with their opponents to start the warmup.

Other than that, is there any validity to other actions implicitly locking your lineup?

Basically, if 5 minutes before match time we get a phone call that one of our players will be late (and need to forfeit a court), and we haven't exchanged lineups, and our warmup has only been on a single court with our own team, can the opposing captain insist that our lineup is "the lineup we came in with" / intended to use?


OrangePower 04-22-2013 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx (Post 7361287)
This demonstrates why captains and acting captains should always show up with a copy of the rules. Sheez.

Well I agree that can't hurt...

But on the other hand I've captained for 6 or 7 years, I don't carry a copy of the rules with me, and I've never had a situation where I would have made use of them on the spot had I in fact had them with me.

So perhaps it also depends on how contentious you and the other captains in your league are. In the OPs case, sounds like the other captain was being a jerk in addition to being ignorant of the rules.

sam_p 04-22-2013 10:26 AM

It is a time honored tradition in our 4.5 league to have as many people warm up as are there for our team - a) one never knows when someone will be late or injured in warmup and someone else will have to play b) so that the opposing captain can spend their time trying to figure out who is playing and at which position.

There is absolutely no implication of who warms up and who doesn't as to who can play and until lineups are formally exchanged all bets are off.

Cindysphinx 04-22-2013 11:18 AM

I have never had to whip out a copy of my rules.

It is enough to say, "Oh, wow. I'm not sure about that. I brought the rules. Maybe you can find it for me?"

Two steps toward my notebook is sufficient for the matter to be dropped.

It's kind of like a force field that is effective against People Who Like To Make Stuff Up.


J_R_B 04-22-2013 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabblingPsychopath (Post 7361121)
Cindy,

No, our players only warmed up with our players (on one court), and their players with their players. No lineup was exchanged.

5 minutes before the match, when we realized we had to default a court, we decided to change the pairing we had originally decided on, BEFORE a) turning over a lineup and b) heading onto the proper courts. They claimed we could not do that, and had to play with our "intended" lineup.

That's ridiculous. You can change up to the second you exchange lineups. In fact, I lost a match last year (in part) because the other team didn't have players in their lineup for which I was specifically arranging my lineup to avoid bad matchups, so this year, one of the things I resolved to do better as a captain is to note who is present for the other team at any given match dureing warmups and make changes if it's not who I expected to be there.


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