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-   -   Would you say anything to a sandbagger during the match? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=461436)

NeverGassed1212 04-22-2013 02:26 PM

Would you say anything to a sandbagger during the match?
 
Played a match this weekend and was getting destroyed by self rated 4.0. Most people I know consider me to be a solid to strong 4.0 and I played a guy this weekend that was returning my best serves with no problem. He had a big serve (dude was like 6'2''), consistent flat forehand, placement, touch, and volley skills. In his own words his weakness is that he can't hit a flat or topspin backhand, but he had a killer slice that he could place and angle extremely well. I was able to run out to a 4-1 lead and then this guy warmed up or decided to start showing the skills I mentioned above he ran off the next 5 games with ease. I was playing some of my best tennis and he was having no issues. I made a comment during the change over after struggling to hold the first game of the second set, that most people say I barely belong in 4.0 and he is putting me to shame. Then magically his level dropped and even though I was getting tired and not playing as well as I was in the 1st set this guy is making way more errors and not hitting his forehand instead choosing to try to slice back returns. We fight through the heat and I end up winning the 2nd set in a tiebreak, but when we start the 10 point tiebreak for the 3rd set his flat forehands reappear and he takes it comfortably 10-5. I did not know that he was self rated at the time and when I checked later my suspicion of his play in the second set only increased. I now wonder if I wouldn't had said anything if the 2nd set would have shaped up much differently.

Mike Y 04-22-2013 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeverGassed1212 (Post 7361992)
Played a match this weekend and was getting destroyed by self rated 4.0. Most people I know consider me to be a solid to strong 4.0 and I played a guy this weekend that was returning my best serves with no problem. He had a big serve (dude was like 6'2''), consistent flat forehand, placement, touch, and volley skills. In his own words his weakness is that he can't hit a flat or topspin backhand, but he had a killer slice that he could place and angle extremely well. I was able to run out to a 4-1 lead and then this guy warmed up or decided to start showing the skills I mentioned above he ran off the next 5 games with ease. I was playing some of my best tennis and he was having no issues. I made a comment during the change over after struggling to hold the first game of the second set, that most people say I barely belong in 4.0 and he is putting me to shame. Then magically his level dropped and even though I was getting tired and not playing as well as I was in the 1st set this guy is making way more errors and not hitting his forehand instead choosing to try to slice back returns. We fight through the heat and I end up winning the 2nd set in a tiebreak, but when we start the 10 point tiebreak for the 3rd set his flat forehands reappear and he takes it comfortably 10-5. I did not know that he was self rated at the time and when I checked later my suspicion of his play in the second set only increased. I now wonder if I wouldn't had said anything if the 2nd set would have shaped up much differently.

So you lost 6-4, 6-7, 10-5 and you think your opponent was a sandbagger? Sounds like he is the right level. What more do you want from a USTA match other than a tough, close match?

"Then magically his level dropped and even though I was getting tired and not playing as well"

Don't you think he was tired as well?

Also, not having a flat or topspin backhand seems like a rather large weakness that is exploitable. On the whole he sounds like a typical good 4.0.

spinorama 04-22-2013 02:46 PM

So you lost to a guy in a 3rd set tiebreak which means he is a sandbagger??

Even Usta says that a 4.49 should beat a 4.01 with a score of 6-0, 6-0. So unless you think you are a 4.49, why shouldn't he beat you?

spinorama 04-22-2013 02:46 PM

Jinx

:shock:

OrangePower 04-22-2013 02:53 PM

I would not say anything. I don't think I could judge that someone is in fact a sandbagger based on just one match. For example, I know a (computer rated) 4.5 who will on some days play like a 5.0, and on others like a 4.0. Heck, even during the course of a match his consistency will fluctuate. If you happen to play him on an 'on' day you might conclude that he is a sandbagger, but that is definitely not the case. On an 'off' day, you'd wonder how he ever got to 4.5.

Maybe that's what happened in your case? Have you considered that maybe the guy has not played in a while (hence self rated), and so has not found consistent form yet? Maybe that's why his level fluctuated during the course of the match? And it seems an exaggeration to say that he 'destroyed' you when in fact you had a 4-1 lead in the 1st, and won the 2nd.

Bottom line, I don't think there is nearly enough evidence to say that the guy is a sandbagger. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but if anything, it sounds like you are looking for reasons to justify your loss.

IA-SteveB 04-22-2013 03:04 PM

I think the match was way over-analyzed. Just my opinion.

asimple 04-22-2013 03:35 PM

It sounds to me like you should have spent more time thinking about how to win than if your opponent was a sandbagger. Even if he was it woudn't have done you any good. Most likely he wasn't though as it is very unlikely he would have let you win the second set in that case, especially with a tiebreaker for the 3rd.

What were you planning on saying if he was?

goober 04-22-2013 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Y (Post 7362022)
So you lost 6-4, 6-7, 10-5 and you think your opponent was a sandbagger? Sounds like he is the right level. What more do you want from a USTA match other than a tough, close match?

"Then magically his level dropped and even though I was getting tired and not playing as well"

Don't you think he was tired as well?

Also, not having a flat or topspin backhand seems like a rather large weakness that is exploitable. On the whole he sounds like a typical good 4.0.

I think the implication was that guy was in total control of the match but tanking to keep scores close and turning it on when he needed to. There are guys that actually do this to keep from getting bumped. I would not say this guy was one of them based one match. I would have to check out his other matches, check out his team and captain. Are they in contention for playoffs, does the captain have a reputation for tanking matches/sets, ect.

NLBwell 04-22-2013 04:30 PM

Maybe your comment freaked him out and he lost his concentration and started playing worse.

NeverGassed1212 04-22-2013 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asimple (Post 7362111)
It sounds to me like you should have spent more time thinking about how to win than if your opponent was a sandbagger. Even if he was it woudn't have done you any good. Most likely he wasn't though as it is very unlikely he would have let you win the second set in that case, especially with a tiebreaker for the 3rd.

What were you planning on saying if he was?

I spent the whole time trying to beat him, I threw the kitchen sink at this guy and he wasn't phased by anything. I was doing what I consider a good job of mixing up my serving and almost every return was a bullet off the forehand or a great slice off the backhand. I said something to try and get him thinking and it seemed to work because I had no business winning the second set. I was just curious if people would say anything or just keep receiving the beating.

spinorama 04-22-2013 05:21 PM

Just take it and learn from it

NeverGassed1212 04-22-2013 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goober (Post 7362117)
I think the implication was that guy was in total control of the match but tanking to keep scores close and turning it on when he needed to. There are guys that actually do this to keep from getting bumped. I would not say this guy was one of them based one match. I would have to check out his other matches, check out his team and captain. Are they in contention for playoffs, does the captain have a reputation for tanking matches/sets, ect.

I definitely think this guy should have been able to beat me handily and could easily be playing 4.5. He was in complete control by the end of the first set and I think I was able to run up a quick lead in the 1st due to better prep and warm up. His lack of a flat backhand was not a liability at all as his slice was excellent and he could hit great angles. The guy even hit a volley off a passing shot behind him that was just barely out. Maybe he isn't a sandbagger in the truest malicious sense but he definitely had too much skill for 4.0

spinorama 04-22-2013 05:29 PM

Think of the possible outcomes:

1.) eventually he gets bumped and maybe you never see him again, maybe you do if you move up

2.) you report him and he gets bumped and maybe you never see him again, maybe you do if you move up

3.) you don't report him, and you personally improve enough to get bumped up, then you never see him again


I'd choose option 3

asimple 04-22-2013 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeverGassed1212 (Post 7362250)
I spent the whole time trying to beat him, I threw the kitchen sink at this guy and he wasn't phased by anything. I was doing what I consider a good job of mixing up my serving and almost every return was a bullet off the forehand or a great slice off the backhand. I said something to try and get him thinking and it seemed to work because I had no business winning the second set.

I think you are looking at this from the absolute wrong perspective. It sounds like you got a great match that you could learn a lot from even though you lost. I would much prefer to have matches like this and lose than win easily. Your argument seems to be prefaced on you being a strong 4.0. Is it possible that you are not quite as good as you think?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeverGassed1212 (Post 7362250)
I was just curious if people would say anything or just keep receiving the beating.

I am still lost about what you could have said or done about this. Creating conflict in the match wouldn't really serve any purpose and make you look like a poor loser.

beernutz 04-22-2013 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeverGassed1212 (Post 7361992)
Played a match this weekend and was getting destroyed by self rated 4.0. Most people I know consider me to be a solid to strong 4.0 and I played a guy this weekend that was returning my best serves with no problem. He had a big serve (dude was like 6'2''), consistent flat forehand, placement, touch, and volley skills. In his own words his weakness is that he can't hit a flat or topspin backhand, but he had a killer slice that he could place and angle extremely well. I was able to run out to a 4-1 lead and then this guy warmed up or decided to start showing the skills I mentioned above he ran off the next 5 games with ease. I was playing some of my best tennis and he was having no issues. I made a comment during the change over after struggling to hold the first game of the second set, that most people say I barely belong in 4.0 and he is putting me to shame. Then magically his level dropped and even though I was getting tired and not playing as well as I was in the 1st set this guy is making way more errors and not hitting his forehand instead choosing to try to slice back returns. We fight through the heat and I end up winning the 2nd set in a tiebreak, but when we start the 10 point tiebreak for the 3rd set his flat forehands reappear and he takes it comfortably 10-5. I did not know that he was self rated at the time and when I checked later my suspicion of his play in the second set only increased. I now wonder if I wouldn't had said anything if the 2nd set would have shaped up much differently.

Get over yourself.

NeverGassed1212 04-22-2013 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asimple (Post 7362329)
I think you are looking at this from the absolute wrong perspective. It sounds like you got a great match that you could learn a lot from even though you lost. I would much prefer to have matches like this and lose than win easily. Your argument seems to be prefaced on you being a strong 4.0. Is it possible that you are not quite as good as you think?



I am still lost about what you could have said or done about this. Creating conflict in the match wouldn't really serve any purpose and make you look like a poor loser.

I did learn a lot from the loss and on my disappointing loss scale this one is relatively low. I got beat and like I said I had no business even getting the 1 set I did. I have lost matches and been really ****ed because I was playing extremely poorly, but no part of me is angry about this one and I have no intention of even filing a complaint. I have had people use the same tactic on me once or twice before to try and get in my head. On the change over I was truly in awe of how this guy had completely deconstructed my game and it did something to him. Whether he tanked intentionally or just lost focus I will never know. I just wanted to start a discussion to see if anyone had experienced anything similar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beernutz (Post 7362333)
Get over yourself.

As far as getting over myself I am more than done with that. I really don't think I am anything very special. I said that other people think I am higher than a 4.0 and my opinion of this guy's skills is based on the last couple of years playing 4.0 league, nothing more.

OnyxZ28 04-22-2013 06:27 PM

I've had people say to me, "that's not a X.Y shot," or "if you're still here next year I'm going to complain," but it hasn't affected my play. After hearing it for a while, you just smile it off and let the computer do its thing (I stayed at my self rated rating for two years before getting bumped this year).

TennisCJC 04-23-2013 05:19 AM

I think the OP is implying that the guy was throwing games to make the match competitive when it really wasn't a competitive match. I cannot offer an opinion without seeing the match, but I KNOW this happens. Unfortunately, I was on a 4.0 team a few years ago and we had a young kid just out of a college program playing singles. Our captain and co-captain would occassionally tell the kid to lose a few games because they were afraid he would get DQed. I did not recruit the kid and had nothing to do with his involvment or match performance. He was at least a 4.5 and possibly a 5.0 level player.

cknobman 04-23-2013 05:44 AM

No, what good would it do?

I am so used to losing that I dont really feel bad getting beat by a sandbagger when I struggle to beat equally rated opponents :)

Govnor 04-23-2013 06:10 AM

Sandbagging happens. Whether or not this was the case, only the other guy really knows. You may have suspicions, but players run hot and cold during matches all the time.

Look at it like this though, wouldn't you rather be the player that gets to play against the higher level guy, instead of the player that has to intentionally drop games?


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