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-   -   Modern vs. Classic (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=463087)

Shroud 05-09-2013 11:51 AM

Modern vs. Classic
 
Recently I got back into tennis. Was a 4.0 in my twenties. Serve and volleyer but these days I am not in the best shape to play that style so baseline play is what is going on now. Great backhand but I never really had a forehand that was a weapon like my backhand. Lots of top, OK consistency but not as overpowering or versatile as my backhand. Semiwestern and western mostly.

I just saw a video that compared ATP type forehands to WTA type forehands. I have more of a WTA type take back and follow through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0uCQBiH2Ko

I want to move to an ATP type forehand.


1. Do I need a "modern" racket. Right now I am using the Prince Original Graphite mid customized to 425g (14.95 oz) and very headlight.
1a. if I need a modern racket what would you recommend?
2. Don't I need to also develop modern footwork to hit with an ATP style forehand. Any vids you would recommend??
3. Are there any exercises I should be doing to aid the transition.
4. Should I even be considering such a change?

sureshs 05-09-2013 11:57 AM

Don't go for more than 12.5 oz and make it 6 pts HL max. For the modern baseline game, you need lighter racket to swing fast with topspin, and less HL than in the past for hitting powerful groundies. You need to rely on fast swings, not the pendulum effect arising from higher weight. Check your grip size too - don't go for more than your recommended size - bigger grips are less conducive to top spin.

treblings 05-09-2013 12:01 PM

just enjoy playing tennis again.
if you want to talk about it, you´ve come to the right place
if you want to work on your technique, find the best coach available in your area

Lukhas 05-09-2013 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treblings (Post 7398576)
just enjoy playing tennis again.
if you want to talk about it, you´ve come to the right place
if you want to work on your technique, find the best coach available in your area

What he said.

Shroud 05-09-2013 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7398562)
Don't go for more than 12.5 oz and make it 6 pts HL max. For the modern baseline game, you need lighter racket to swing fast with topspin, and less HL than in the past for hitting powerful groundies. You need to rely on fast swings, not the pendulum effect arising from higher weight. Check your grip size too - don't go for more than your recommended size - bigger grips are less conducive to top spin.


Hi Suresh,

What do you recommend so I can try a demo. Also how can I get past the different feel. Wont a super light racket get moved around by the ball?

Also I am a bit confused because I saw a site that was talking about a heavier racket and that there was a misconception about racket speed and F=ma vs. angular momentum. If I read it right it was saying that swing speed was not the main factor. I'll try to find it.

LeeD 05-09-2013 12:36 PM

If for some reason you want a more modern backhand, and you already use a SW or W forehand, as you said, just lead your takeback with your elbow, allowing your to hold the racket longer with your off hand.
Then swing thru forcefully and finish around the other side of your body..don't stop the followthru whatsoever, don't catch the racket with your other hand.
12.5 oz IS a heavy racket.
A light racket is 10 oz. Anything in between is fine.

Shroud 05-09-2013 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treblings (Post 7398576)
just enjoy playing tennis again.
if you want to talk about it, you´ve come to the right place
if you want to work on your technique, find the best coach available in your area

Great point treblings!

Do most coaches teach the modern game? If I look at the vids on youtube it seems to be either classic shots or modern ones depending on who does the vid.

Never been a big fan of lessons. The couple I have had seemed like a waste. Are there any tips you can give to find a good coach and what to do to get something out of the money spent?

sureshs 05-09-2013 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shroud (Post 7398733)
Hi Suresh,

What do you recommend so I can try a demo. Also how can I get past the different feel. Wont a super light racket get moved around by the ball?

Also I am a bit confused because I saw a site that was talking about a heavier racket and that there was a misconception about racket speed and F=ma vs. angular momentum. If I read it right it was saying that swing speed was not the main factor. I'll try to find it.

I am using the Dunlop Bio 200 Tour. It has high weight and SW so you will like it:

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Dunl...LOP-DB2HT.html

sureshs 05-09-2013 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shroud (Post 7398733)
Hi Suresh,

What do you recommend so I can try a demo. Also how can I get past the different feel. Wont a super light racket get moved around by the ball?

Also I am a bit confused because I saw a site that was talking about a heavier racket and that there was a misconception about racket speed and F=ma vs. angular momentum. If I read it right it was saying that swing speed was not the main factor. I'll try to find it.

Some of the sites have not been updated for years and tell you to use the heaviest you can handle. Well, I can handle 16 oz, just not very well. Times have changed, but the authors stick to their old views while the game has moved on. It is true that pros use SW of 350+, but these days they have less HL balance. Good rec players and even top juniors are using much less than 12.5 oz frames.

sureshs 05-09-2013 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shroud (Post 7398808)
Never been a big fan of lessons. The couple I have had seemed like a waste.

Usually they are a waste. There is plenty of free stuff available on the internet, including free parts of tennisplayer.net, fuzzyyellowballs, jeff salzenstein's videos, etc from which you can get most of the info. Youtube search for "modern forehand" etc will also produce a lot of good stuff.

skiracer55 05-09-2013 12:53 PM

We had a thread like this recently...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shroud (Post 7398541)
Recently I got back into tennis. Was a 4.0 in my twenties. Serve and volleyer but these days I am not in the best shape to play that style so baseline play is what is going on now. Great backhand but I never really had a forehand that was a weapon like my backhand. Lots of top, OK consistency but not as overpowering or versatile as my backhand. Semiwestern and western mostly.

I just saw a video that compared ATP type forehands to WTA type forehands. I have more of a WTA type take back and follow through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0uCQBiH2Ko

I want to move to an ATP type forehand.


1. Do I need a "modern" racket. Right now I am using the Prince Original Graphite mid customized to 425g (14.95 oz) and very headlight.
1a. if I need a modern racket what would you recommend?
2. Don't I need to also develop modern footwork to hit with an ATP style forehand. Any vids you would recommend??
3. Are there any exercises I should be doing to aid the transition.
4. Should I even be considering such a change?

...and nobody, at least to my satisfaction, could come up with a decent definition of "modern" verus "classical". If you want to make your forehand more of a weapon, go see a decent pro and tell him that's what you want...and don't even talk about modern or classical.

And as for rackets, that's a separate topic. A lot of TWers get hung up on what racket they should use. It does make a difference, but a lot of online advice isn't going to help you much. TW has a nice "racket finder" service, and they also have an excellent demo program. Do some research, demo some rackets, and take it from there...

LeeD 05-09-2013 01:08 PM

OP mentions he has a WTA style forehand and is looking for more power, to use his forehand as more of a weapon.
First of all, can OP swing faster? That is needed on a modern forehand with power. That question needs to be answered.
Then, how heavy of a racket CAN you swing faster than before, on every forehand? That depends on strength and conditioning of OP. We can't say, we haven't seen his vids.
Now, McEnroe and Connors hit old school "WTA" forehands. They use placement instead of power. Is that the real answer?

LeeD 05-09-2013 01:14 PM

Oh, classic. 1970 teachings. Turn sideways, lead the takeback with the rackethead, especially at your side, the head of the racket is the first thing to pass to your side as you takeback. Followthru, catch the racket out in front of you with your other hand, or stop the followthru as the racket is pointed at the target.
Modern. Lead the takeback with your elbow. Followthru fully and don't stop the forward swing until it almost hits the other side of you body.

Lukhas 05-09-2013 02:18 PM

Classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9WOcEIjGJQ
Modern: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMNtq393tvo

I'm not a coach, but you maybe need to drop some weight off your racquet like the other mentioned. Try to ask advices on the racquet section. Having such an heavy but headlight racquet is unneeded. Sampras days are long gone...

LeeD 05-09-2013 02:35 PM

No doubt, that's a nice forehand, modern style.
I wonder though. I'll bet on McEnroe over that video forehand hitter. Of course, the forehand is but one shot out of dozens.
And Crissie's forehand would still work in the WTA, although some younger pros are adopting what appears to be full western modern forehands.

5263 05-09-2013 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukhas (Post 7399210)

Pretty good ref for those who struggle to grasp the difference in modern vs
classic!

WildVolley 05-09-2013 02:52 PM

If you want to make a change, getting a camera which will shoot decent slow motion video will help you a lot.

Don't trust your body to tell you what you are doing. Instead, trust the video. Then try to associate the feeling you had when hitting properly as proven by video.

I'd demo a bunch of modern rackets. They're all pretty good. I currently play a Head LM Radical, which still can be had for a good price.

Relinquis 05-09-2013 03:44 PM

you don't have to change your style entirely...

you can easily go from being a Serve and Volley type player to an all court player. Come in on short balls and after solid approach shots instead of on every point.

as your fitness improves you will be able to make use of your fast reflexes and skill from all the volleying you did earlier. While it is necessary to be able to rally from the baseline there is no need to camp behind it when you see an opportunity to come in. many of your opponents won't know what hit them and it will put pressure on them to hit longer and take riskier shots.

work with a good coach. he will spot some flaws.

Velvet Ga el 05-09-2013 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukhas (Post 7399210)
Classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9WOcEIjGJQ
Modern: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMNtq393tvo

I'm not a coach, but you maybe need to drop some weight off your racquet like the other mentioned. Try to ask advices on the racquet section. Having such an heavy but headlight racquet is unneeded. Sampras days are long gone...

You should be given a gold medal for reminding those of us a few decades her junior just how fine Chris Evert was. Ummm, fine tennis player that is.

rkelley 05-09-2013 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shroud (Post 7398541)
Recently I got back into tennis. Was a 4.0 in my twenties. Serve and volleyer but these days I am not in the best shape to play that style so baseline play is what is going on now. Great backhand but I never really had a forehand that was a weapon like my backhand. Lots of top, OK consistency but not as overpowering or versatile as my backhand. Semiwestern and western mostly.

I just saw a video that compared ATP type forehands to WTA type forehands. I have more of a WTA type take back and follow through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0uCQBiH2Ko

I want to move to an ATP type forehand.


1. Do I need a "modern" racket. Right now I am using the Prince Original Graphite mid customized to 425g (14.95 oz) and very headlight.
1a. if I need a modern racket what would you recommend?
2. Don't I need to also develop modern footwork to hit with an ATP style forehand. Any vids you would recommend??
3. Are there any exercises I should be doing to aid the transition.
4. Should I even be considering such a change?

1. 425g is a heavy racquet. Heavy is good to a point, but it's going to be hard to get that bad boy around. A 350g frame, strung, is a pretty hefty racquet now. OTOH, you don't want to go with a sub 300g frame either. It going to be hard to hit through the ball. Small amount of lead at 10 and 2 have a huge effect on how the racquet swings.

2. Generally you want to hit from an open to semi-open stance if you can. It will be easiest to get your core to turn into the shot if you're open or semi-open, but you can and will hit from any stance as required.

3. Don't know.

4. Do it if it's fun. It will take a while to learn it, but you can absolutely rip balls with modern strokes in ways that seemed unimaginable with traditional strokes. If you have a bit of patience to learn and want that result, then definitely do it.

One other note, you don't need to swing the racquet super fast to create the ATP style stroke. The ATP style allows you to generate tons of racquet head speed, but the basic technique you should be able to execute at any speed. The key is to get that stretch/shortening into your stroke.


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