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sebas_y 05-18-2013 05:11 PM

Showing butt cap in forehand
 
Hi,

After playing tennis for about 4 years, my coach is now trying to teach me to face the butt cap of the racquet towards the tennis ball.

I am having a hard time trying to do that. So I have several questions.

1. I've seen several tennis players do the same thing, so I think that technique is correct. Do you have any tips to help me master that stroke ?

2. I currently play with a Dunlop 4D 200, as you know it is a heavy racquet (11.9 oz) with a high swingweight (337). I was wondering if another racquet would help me. I was considering Dunlop Biomimetic 200 lite or Head Youtek Prestige midplus as they both have less swingweight.

Thanks for your help,
Sebastian.

Lukhas 05-18-2013 05:15 PM

If your racquet is headlight enough, you may not need to change, but given the high swingweight, I doubt it's the case. And the weight doesn't give a lot of margin for customization either. But if it becomes tiring and difficult to hit with in long matches, a switch may be beneficial. But that's not for this section.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J74XpkGKyuc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZqhHdmqSPQ
Forget about his commercial, concentrate about leverage points he brings up.

5263 05-18-2013 08:02 PM

Good advice from your pro.
Take your time and develop your feel for it.
May have to go easy for a bit to work for the feel, but
the power will come fast with this technique.

rkelley 05-18-2013 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5263 (Post 7425987)
Good advice from your pro.
Take your time and develop your feel for it.
May have to go easy for a bit to work for tthe feel, but
the power will come fast with this technique.

Totally agree. Practice slowly to get the feel.

The Dunlop 4D 200 is a nice racquet. You want a racquet with some weight.

Vlad_C 05-18-2013 10:51 PM

I'm kind of working on the same issue myself...
You probably watched some youtube videos of pros hitting, so you've seen that they all do it.
Lead the stroke with the hand and butt of the racquet, while the racquet head lags behind. Then whip the racquet head at the ball. If the racquet is set up nicely (ie right balance, SW), the head will come around naturally to meet the ball.

This guy makes it look ridiculously easy, he must be a pro or something :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKuY9zDU1MQ

sureshs 05-19-2013 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkelley (Post 7426116)
Totally agree. Practice slowly to get the feel.

The Dunlop 4D 200 is a nice racquet. You want a racquet with some weight.

I noticed you are very rigorous about it, especially on the BH.

I have seen some juniors do it very abruptly. I did not like that.

What exactly does "showing" or "pointing" butt cap mean? Towards what? The ball I assume. But the ball is moving. So the butt is supposed to "track" the ball? Or the tracking is with the strings, and the butt pointing happen only towards the end of the back swing?

To me, doing it consciously felt awkward and I thought there could be way to make it happen as a side-effect.

LeeD 05-19-2013 08:57 AM

Could it be just a GUIDELINE that tells you about how much backswing your need to really hit the ball?
Too much, and your backswing is too long, causing you to be late on the ball a lot of times.
Too little, you are not taking a full swing at the ball, so you're playing grandma tennis.

Thepowerofchoice 05-19-2013 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7427688)
I noticed you are very rigorous about it, especially on the BH.

I have seen some juniors do it very abruptly. I did not like that.

What exactly does "showing" or "pointing" butt cap mean? Towards what? The ball I assume. But the ball is moving. So the butt is supposed to "track" the ball? Or the tracking is with the strings, and the butt pointing happen only towards the end of the back swing?

To me, doing it consciously felt awkward and I thought there could be way to make it happen as a side-effect.

These two simple drills really help my ground strokes and gave me that pointing butt cap as a "side-effect".

http://www.feeltennis.net/feeling-th...khand-strokes/
http://www.feeltennis.net/how-to-hit-a-tennis-ball/

The Meat 05-19-2013 09:23 AM

Changing racquets really won't help or hurt your game as much as technique will. Pointing the butt cap should come naturally if you take a big back swing, if its shorter you won't see this.

Bagumbawalla 05-19-2013 09:26 AM

In my opinion (for what it's worth), teaching someone to point the butt-cap is wrong.

Yes, the butt-cap will point toward the ball if you have correct form. It is the correct form that should be taught- and you will know you are on the right track to gaining that form- if you notice the butt-cap being "dragged" toward the ball at the beginning of the forward motion.

As you pull forward on the racket, inertia, causes the head of the racket to lag behind (causing the butt-cap to point forward) until, at a point, the head speed increases, swings around the "axis" of the wrist and drives through the ball.

psv255 05-19-2013 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7427688)
What exactly does "showing" or "pointing" butt cap mean? Towards what? The ball I assume. But the ball is moving. So the butt is supposed to "track" the ball? Or the tracking is with the strings, and the butt pointing happen only towards the end of the back swing?

Showing the buttcap to the ball means that the buttcap will be facing the ball before the racquet face does in the forward swing. This aligns the forward-moving racquet with the line of the incoming ball in a smooth and repeatable way, also called "getting into the slot." Something very similar happens in golf. "Showing the buttcap" is only a short moment in time, a checkpoint that the swing goes through.

The less time between showing buttcap and contact, the more racquet head speed you should be able to generate.

See here for a more complete overview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...DEWDw70s#t=80s

[Edit] I agree with Bagumbawalla: it's a sign you're doing things right, but not something to try and consciously do. Focus on the prep and generating power with the core/hips and not the arm, and you will start inadvertently showing buttcap to ball.

hawk eye 05-19-2013 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlad_C (Post 7426153)
This guy makes it look ridiculously easy, he must be a pro or something :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKuY9zDU1MQ

Not that great, almost no ptd in there. :)

The Meat 05-19-2013 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawk eye (Post 7427853)
Not that great, almost no ptd in there. :)

Such lazy footwork as well, and that slight air of arrogance around him....peRFection. :lol:

Lukhas 05-19-2013 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meat (Post 7427893)
peRFection

Aww, you made it too obvious... Gonna edit if you change it.

marosmith 05-19-2013 10:02 AM

Keep the wrist loose and this should eventually come naturally as you impart spin and increase swing speed.

HunterST 05-19-2013 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thepowerofchoice (Post 7427805)
These two simple drills really help my ground strokes and gave me that pointing butt cap as a "side-effect".

http://www.feeltennis.net/feeling-th...khand-strokes/
http://www.feeltennis.net/how-to-hit-a-tennis-ball/

Rolling over the ball is a terrible way to hit. It will go in the net every time.

rkelley 05-19-2013 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7427688)
I noticed you are very rigorous about it [showing the butt cap - RK], especially on the BH.

I have seen some juniors do it very abruptly. I did not like that.

What exactly does "showing" or "pointing" butt cap mean? Towards what? The ball I assume. But the ball is moving. So the butt is supposed to "track" the ball? Or the tracking is with the strings, and the butt pointing happen only towards the end of the back swing?

To me, doing it consciously felt awkward and I thought there could be way to make it happen as a side-effect.

That's interesting. I actually don't think about it much on the backhand, though I know it's happening. I've videoed myself and it's fairly prominent. My mental cues on the backhand are:
- right hand soft on the handle
- line up the head slightly above the ball with the weight on the back foot
- drop the head below the ball at the start of the swing
- step into shot

One my fh, OTOH, I think about showing the butt a lot. From ptd I really try to drive my hand out to the ball with a relaxed wrist and forearm. This has the effect of both extending my wrist and supinating my forearm. When I do this correctly, and then pull up and across, the racquet really explodes out to and over the ball. Feels incredible. When I don't do get my hand out to the ball first I tend to swing my hand and arm through contact. I don't feel that explosion. I loose power and a lot of spin.

Power Player 05-19-2013 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterST (Post 7428160)
Rolling over the ball is a terrible way to hit. It will go in the net every time.

That has nothing to do with the links you quoted. That site is an excellent one that explains things rather well.

If you are consciously pointing the buttcap at the ball then thats not good. So OP, I'd suggest getting the feel of it and then you will see that your stroke will just do it as a result of the sum of the parts.

sureshs 05-19-2013 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psv255 (Post 7427848)
Showing the buttcap to the ball means that the buttcap will be facing the ball before the racquet face does in the forward swing. This aligns the forward-moving racquet with the line of the incoming ball in a smooth and repeatable way, also called "getting into the slot."

OK that was exactly what I thought - it is at the end of the backswing and starting with the forward swing. I have seen some juniors point their butt cap the earliest they can, and it just doesn't look smooth.

sureshs 05-19-2013 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkelley (Post 7428161)
That's interesting. I actually don't think about it much on the backhand, though I know it's happening. I've videoed myself and it's fairly prominent.

It is the most prominent among all the players I have seen, and clearly visible from the other side.


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