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-   -   A pro+wooden racquet VS 5.0 + modern racquet? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=466174)

Rozroz 06-09-2013 02:35 AM

A pro+wooden racquet VS 5.0 + modern racquet?
 
i'm interested in speculating who'll have the edge :)
after a proper warm up of course.
what do you say? is 5.0 enough for an upset? or should it be higher?

GoudX 06-09-2013 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rozroz (Post 7491749)
i'm interested in speculating who'll have the edge :)
after a proper warm up of course.
what do you say? is 5.0 enough for an upset? or should it be higher?

Think you're overestimating the effect of equipment. Ask yourself this question, could a 5.0 even get a point off of a prime Borg playing with a wooden racquet? Maybe they can hold a service game if they are the upward moving Karlovic of 5.0, and Borg wasn't bothering to return wide serves, and the stars aligned, but they will still lose the match with a very one sided score.

I own a slightly warped wooden racquet, and I sometimes use it for a laugh. I will lose to people I can normally beat in a close match, but I stay within roughly the skill level - players I dominate, I still dominate. The biggest problem is that my kick serve becomes impossible, which is a pain as it is my most effective shot.

One of the top 4 would still probably be in the top 100 (or higher) playing with a wooden racquet, and the top 20 would still be in the top 200. Hell, 54 year old McEnroe could win in straight games against any 5.0 using one of his old racquets, never mind a current pro.

NLBwell 06-09-2013 03:55 AM

A top pro with a wood racket would beat a Futures player using a regular racket. (Assuming he had some time to practice with it) Using it will cut down on the margin of error due to smaller racket head size and less availability of spin. Someone with a big serve like Isner may actually lose very little in his game. In a long grinding clay match, the slightly higher percentage of unforced errors would make a much larger difference.
Going from wood to graphite (really more about changing head sizes and string technology) changed the optimal percentages in how the game is played.

Rozroz 06-09-2013 04:16 AM

a tend to agree with the above responses, however, in reality this remains to be seen (also if we include wood/gut VS modern/poly)

GuyClinch 06-09-2013 05:44 AM

Pro would crush IMHO. Racquets are overhyped by the media I think.. A racquet switch like that could destroy the rankings and make say Federer struggle on tour and catapault low ranks pros like Donald Young..

But 5.0 to 7.0. That's just a GIGANTIC difference..

Rozroz 06-09-2013 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuyClinch (Post 7492128)
Pro would crush IMHO. Racquets are overhyped by the media I think.. A racquet switch like that could destroy the rankings and make say Federer struggle on tour and catapault low ranks pros like Donald Young..

But 5.0 to 7.0. That's just a GIGANTIC difference..

i'm not so sure it's that simple.
can you just take your PRO technique and use it on a wood stick?
no you can't. a modern strokes pro will have to make huge adjustments to play a decent game IMO.

WildVolley 06-09-2013 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rozroz (Post 7492269)
i'm not so sure it's that simple.
can you just take your PRO technique and use it on a wood stick?
no you can't. a modern strokes pro will have to make huge adjustments to play a decent game IMO.

I realize you're just trolling, but this is much sillier than even the infamous 5.0 versus woman 7.0 thread.

A pro wouldn't get as much spin with modern technique and a wooden stick, but he would still easily bagel a 5.0. Borg and other players in the 70s and early 80s were hitting topspin shots with wooden sticks. Even Nadal, with his extreme swings, would have a trivial time. On serve, the pro could still hit 120-130mph easily on first serve, though the action on the 2nd would be reduced a little.

In short, stupid question.

Rozroz 06-09-2013 08:09 AM

wow, thanks for the nice polite reply.
no, i may be naive but i wasn't trolling.

hawk eye 06-09-2013 08:20 AM

And still, loads of rec players switch every month from all kinds of Bablobats to all kinds of Dunlobs and so on, and want to believe it makes a difference..

Rozroz 06-09-2013 08:37 AM

all you are saying sounds true but pretty theoretical.
legend pros themselves saying the game should go back to petit sweetspots and gut, because technology changed the game.

so maybe not a 5.0, but still, seeing this experiment for real will be very interesting.

NLBwell 06-09-2013 09:52 AM

Gut strings in a wood racket would give essentially the same amount of ball velocity as poly in a graphite racket. Ease of producing spin would be the major difference. A top pro with a bit of practice would have no problem controlling the ball. Remember, there was a time when both graphite and wood rackets were used by pros in the 70's. Graphite rackets gradually took over, but it didn't really change how people played or who were the top players. When a lower-ranked player changed to graphite, it didn't cause him to quickly rise in the rankings. The poly strings make more of a difference in how the game is played but, once again, it didn't make a big difference in the rankings when particular pros switched to poly.

Spaghetti strings were banned when unknown players - who were still touring pros - started beating the top players. Nothing like that happens with wood vs. graphite.

WildVolley 06-09-2013 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rozroz (Post 7493029)
wow, thanks for the nice polite reply.
no, i may be naive but i wasn't trolling.

OK, I apologize. Perhaps I was confusing you with someone else who constantly trolls.

You are correct that modern rackets and modern string make it easier to hit big topspin. There is a difference and it is important. However, it is not nearly a big enough difference to make a 5.0 competitive with a 7.0.

I played with a wood racket a little when I first played in the 1980s. For a short period of time, you had people playing with the black POG and others playing against them with wood rackets. Shanking is easier with a wood racket, but it is still possible to generate a fair amount of spin. Blasting a hard flat shot is quite doable with a wood racket, especially on the serve.

I think if you play both wood and modern rackets you'll get a feel for the difference.

Rozroz 06-09-2013 02:15 PM

ok. now we are all clear about this.
what i still don't get is the slow swing the retro pros made with the wood sticks VS todays super fast swings. how could this be done with a wooden stick?

BevelDevil 06-09-2013 03:07 PM

Yeah, if modern pros could effectively use their modern technique on a wooden racket then why didn't old-time pros also use those types of strokes? Why are Nadal's and Federer's forehands so radically different from those in the wooden-racket era?

Also, didn't Nadal himself say he couldn't hit with a wooden racket?

SFrazeur 06-09-2013 03:19 PM

There are always these threads with weekend hackers trying to conjure up some machination to say that they can beat a pro player. Moving on. . .

WildVolley 06-09-2013 03:40 PM

Here's a video of Borg for those of you who haven't watched him play much. He was considered a topspin guy, but he wasn't the only one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg2gzBR9Klg

You can hit modern style swings with the old rackets, it just isn't as easy to do and you have to have better control not to shank because the wood heads were so much more narrow. A guy like Federer would have no trouble at all getting sweet-spot with a wooden frame and he'd work any 5.0.

Here's another comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKF1K1BdXG8

jackcrawford 06-09-2013 04:03 PM

On 8/28/11, Sampras beat Lendl 7-5, using a wood racquet while Lendl used his Bosworth 96 graphite. http://tennisopolis.com/forum/topics...ource=activity

WildVolley 06-09-2013 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackcrawford (Post 7494777)
On 8/28/11, Sampras beat Lendl 7-5, using a wood racquet while Lendl used his Bosworth 96 graphite. http://tennisopolis.com/forum/topics...ource=activity

This is quite believable, but doesn't really get at the heart of the question the OP was trying to ask. Sampras is quite comfortable playing a S&V type game, and a wood racket is still good for playing S&V. I'd argue that McEnroe for instance would easily work a 5.0 using a wood racket today.

The adjustment would be a little greater for someone like Nadal who is used to taking a huge cut using a wide stiff racket. Borg had similar or at least proto-Nadal type strokes in the early 1970s using a wood racket. I don't see any reason Nadal couldn't hit a little bit more like Borg. The modern composite rackets and poly string has meant more spin, but the modern strokes could be adapted to the heavier wooden rackets. Especially if they were balanced to be more headlight.

JW10S 06-09-2013 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rozroz (Post 7491749)
i'm interested in speculating who'll have the edge :)
after a proper warm up of course.
what do you say? is 5.0 enough for an upset? or should it be higher?

A player who played on a national 4.5 or 5.0 USTA team (I forget) bet me $200 I could not beat him using a 65" wood racquet--I won. He then bet me double or nothing I couldn't beat him using a T2000--I did. He then bet me $500 I could not beat him using a Big Bubba--I did. None of the racquets were mine or had my usual grip size or strings. The guy doesn't seem to want to bet me anymore...

Mike Bulgakov 06-09-2013 08:00 PM

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