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-   -   How good of a player must a coach be in order to be successful? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=467185)

tennisballer 06-18-2013 02:08 PM

How good of a player must a coach be in order to be successful?
 
With the controversy with the hiring of the women's coach at Wisconsin I want to get everyone's opinion on a subject matter. How important (or not important) do you think it is for a coach to have a strong playing background? It's pretty obvious the people at Wisconsin valued her playing background much more than her coaching background which I think is just plain crazy. Personally, I think you need to be atleast a solid player in order to get certain players to follow and respect you, but do not think its necessary that the coach be a world class player.

newpball 06-18-2013 02:15 PM

I never understood this jack of all trades approach to 'the coach' that some have.

I mean you need someone who is good at teaching technique, strategy and giving feedback, you need someone who can setup and monitor a good training regime, you need someone who can give the proverbial 'kick on the butt' and then you need someone who keeps an eye on the logistics of things.

Now why does this have to be the same person?

LeeD 06-18-2013 02:25 PM

First and foremost, a head coach needs to be an administrator, able to keep up the logistics, travel, upkeep, and care of the team's personel.
Then, they have to understand the BASICS of tennis, the basics of each stroke, and the basics of a winning strategy (not always just pushing over and over).
Then they have to be able to delegate tasks to other players and assistant coach's, who have to answer to him.

MarTennis 07-02-2013 10:45 AM

Any college program coaching more than a modicum of technique is a program on the way to club status. Bring on the hate.

floridatennisdude 07-04-2013 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarTennis (Post 7556170)
Any college program coaching more than a modicum of technique is a program on the way to club status. Bring on the hate.

I agree completely. A college coach shouldn't have to build strokes. Their role is to help a player discover ways to use their skills and create strategy. If a college coach is overhauling a players' ground strokes...not a good sign.

on the line 07-04-2013 05:11 AM

Florida tennis dude you are completely clueless and obviously don't understand college tennis, as a mom of a NCAA singles champ and now a winning head coach, I can tell you that unless you are tweaking or re-building strokes you are not really coaching and any administrator can do your job! Your crazy theories are the reason why so many head coaches fail, they just don't have the expertise and rely entirely on recruiting complete players....just how many of those players do you think exist outside the top 5 programs?

LeeD 07-04-2013 10:43 AM

Strange post 6, as Florida Dude is saying a coach of a D1 school does NOT need to constantly watch over strokes whatsoever.

Gut4Tennis 07-04-2013 03:33 PM

ohhh this touched a deep nerve

let the games begin

roman40 07-05-2013 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by on the line (Post 7561689)
Florida tennis dude you are completely clueless and obviously don't understand college tennis, as a mom of a NCAA singles champ and now a winning head coach, I can tell you that unless you are tweaking or re-building strokes you are not really coaching and any administrator can do your job! Your crazy theories are the reason why so many head coaches fail, they just don't have the expertise and rely entirely on recruiting complete players....just how many of those players do you think exist outside the top 5 programs?

I don't think it's possible to improve your strokes much at college age. It usually takes years to develop consistent and reliable strokes, and presumably you've already played tennis for many years before college, so if you start tweaking and re-building, you're more likely to make things worse.

At college, coaches should focus more on psychology, physical training, health, strategy/tactics, and similar, and for that, the coach doesn't have to be a good tennis player, or even own a racket :) However, more likely than not, coaches at college level have experience playing at college level.

Overdrive 07-05-2013 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roman40 (Post 7564147)
I don't think it's possible to improve your strokes much at college age. It usually takes years to develop consistent and reliable strokes, and presumably you've already played tennis for many years before college, so if you start tweaking and re-building, you're more likely to make things worse.

At college, coaches should focus more on psychology, physical training, health, strategy/tactics, and similar, and for that, the coach doesn't have to be a good tennis player, or even own a racket :) However, more likely than not, coaches at college level have experience playing at college level.

* Claps hands *

tennisballer 07-06-2013 05:56 AM

While I agree with mostly everything Roman40 said, I do believe that tweaking of strokes (i.e. reducing a huge backswing on a stroke, getting the player to keep his/her head down through shot, etc.) should take place in college if it is deemed necessary for the overall improvement. This is part of the job of a coach, atleast one who has a strong technical background and can help facilitate this change. While I agree it does take some time to develop consistent and reliable strokes, as a coach, if you know that you can help your player by tweaking your player's stroke, you would be copping out by using the excuse "it will take too long". Thus you would be doing your player a disservice and probably should be coaching at a low level D2, D3 or NAIA school where being an administrator are the only skills necessary.

On a related side note, basketball players shooting strokes are tweaked all the time when they into college? Why should tennis be any different?

on the line 07-06-2013 06:12 AM

Reading the responses I see on this board its obvious that many folks commenting have no real experience to back up their assumptions about college tennis. You would need to have been around a lot of college teams and players at both top programs and unranked programs to know what you are talking about. Without question even the top players need technical help…sometimes a stroke just goes off for no apparent reason or sometimes there is an injury forcing a player to adjust a certain shot. The lower ranked or unranked teams have their own challenges as they can't attract top players so they need to recruit "projects" that have winning attitudes but maybe have a few issues to overcome be it movement, fitness or stroke production.

That being said, I have witnessed players who come to college with unorthodox shots and I have seen great coaches get them to believe in that shot and actually develop it to use as a weapon. My point is that most college coaches can't recognize when a stroke has potential and when it is actually holding back a player from winning and even if they could recognize it they still lack the expertise to make the necessary adjustments.

josofo 07-06-2013 12:49 PM

Well if someone got to be really good tennis player they know what it takes to get there thus they can give the players tips to get on the path to great tennis.



As far as how much they should be changing strokes. I mean a good coach may be able to teach minor improvements without re inventing the wheel.

roman40 07-06-2013 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by on the line (Post 7569282)
Reading the responses I see on this board its obvious that many folks commenting have no real experience to back up their assumptions about college tennis. You would need to have been around a lot of college teams and players at both top programs and unranked programs to know what you are talking about. Without question even the top players need technical help…sometimes a stroke just goes off for no apparent reason or sometimes there is an injury forcing a player to adjust a certain shot. The lower ranked or unranked teams have their own challenges as they can't attract top players so they need to recruit "projects" that have winning attitudes but maybe have a few issues to overcome be it movement, fitness or stroke production.

That being said, I have witnessed players who come to college with unorthodox shots and I have seen great coaches get them to believe in that shot and actually develop it to use as a weapon. My point is that most college coaches can't recognize when a stroke has potential and when it is actually holding back a player from winning and even if they could recognize it they still lack the expertise to make the necessary adjustments.

I don't think it's the job of the head coach to deal with those issues, there is already a lot to deal with. If a player needs personalized instruction, then they should pay for private lessons, or if college has the funds, they should retain a good tennis instructor for that purpose.

Take a look at what head coach is responsible for, and tell me, does he really have time to fix technique issues? Personally, I don't think so.
http://ncaamarket.ncaa.org/jobs/5528...s-tennis-coach

on the line 07-06-2013 05:49 PM

With all due respect Roman40, I don't need to read the want ads to see what head coaches do. But if you do that’s fine…just so we're clear, the job description you picked was for a Men's & Women's coach at a small Division II school in NY hardly a good example of the type of programs discussed on this board. The truth is most Div I programs have a separate men's & women's head coachs, one or more assistants, graduate assistants and top programs or state schools even have admin. assistants who handle travel & hotels. At many schools the Assistants do much of the day to day recruiting tasks, oversee travel, help run practice and training, travel to events and order equipment etc. The yearly schedules for conference matches are usually determined by each conference so head coaches only schedule the out of conference matches. Head coaches have plenty of court time and those who want to win are using that time to work on tennis skills including technique.

Overdrive 07-06-2013 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by on the line (Post 7571164)
With all due respect Roman40, I don't need to read the want ads to see what head coaches do. But if you do that’s fine…just so we're clear, the job description you picked was for a Men's & Women's coach at a small Division II school in NY hardly a good example of the type of programs discussed on this board. The truth is most Div I programs have a separate men's & women's head coachs, one or more assistants, graduate assistants and top programs or state schools even have admin. assistants who handle travel & hotels. At many schools the Assistants do much of the day to day recruiting tasks, oversee travel, help run practice and training, travel to events and order equipment etc. The yearly schedules for conference matches are usually determined by each conference so head coaches only schedule the out of conference matches. Head coaches have plenty of court time and those who want to win are using that time to work on tennis skills including technique.

Don't they have do all of this to keep themselves on the radar?

roman40 07-06-2013 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by on the line (Post 7571164)
With all due respect Roman40, I don't need to read the want ads to see what head coaches do. But if you do that’s fine…just so we're clear, the job description you picked was for a Men's & Women's coach at a small Division II school in NY hardly a good example of the type of programs discussed on this board. The truth is most Div I programs have a separate men's & women's head coachs, one or more assistants, graduate assistants and top programs or state schools even have admin. assistants who handle travel & hotels. At many schools the Assistants do much of the day to day recruiting tasks, oversee travel, help run practice and training, travel to events and order equipment etc. The yearly schedules for conference matches are usually determined by each conference so head coaches only schedule the out of conference matches. Head coaches have plenty of court time and those who want to win are using that time to work on tennis skills including technique.

No, I don't think that's what head coach should be doing, there are plenty of more important, higher profile tasks to do. If they have all those people, then they should have someone else focus on technique, in the form of private lessons.

on the line 07-06-2013 07:30 PM

"they should have someone else focus on technique, in the form of private lessons."

Are you insane? Only a few players at the very top are using outside private coaching, this is a college tennis....not the juniors!

springfieldalum 07-06-2013 09:13 PM

Of course a college coach works on strokes with players... Believe me, mine got a lot better during the time I played Division I tennis. The new woman's Wisconsin coach has head coaching experience at the Division I level in addition to playing at a high level. Every school is entitled to choose whatever coach they see fit to hopefully better their program.

roman40 07-08-2013 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by on the line (Post 7571328)
"they should have someone else focus on technique, in the form of private lessons."

Are you insane? Only a few players at the very top are using outside private coaching, this is a college tennis....not the juniors!

How many college players have you seen who haven't had a lot of private lessons? I haven't seen any actually. If there are any, they are an exception.


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