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-   -   how fast do you have to hit the ball to hit a winner? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=467590)

pushing_wins 06-22-2013 12:58 PM

how fast do you have to hit the ball to hit a winner?
 
from the baseline against a player who is bunting back lobs

could someone work out the math?


it takes 1 second for an atp player to get the doubles alley from the center of the court


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn6wPB7W8dQ#t=5m51s

sureshs 06-22-2013 01:16 PM

Is the lob being taken and hit as an overhead smash, or being allowed to bounce? After the bounce, it can still be hit as an overhead smash if it bounces high enough, or by a groundstroke. Is the player hitting it as a forehand by running around it if it is on the backhand, or hitting it as a backhand in that case?

pushing_wins 06-22-2013 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7524346)
Is the lob being taken and hit as an overhead smash, or being allowed to bounce? After the bounce, it can still be hit as an overhead smash if it bounces high enough, or by a groundstroke. Is the player hitting it as a forehand by running around it if it is on the backhand, or hitting it as a backhand in that case?

regardless of the stroke, what is the min speed required if you are right on the baseline near the center of the court?

tennisfu 06-22-2013 01:23 PM

Drop shot, maybe 20 mph. Sorry, had to say it.

pushing_wins 06-22-2013 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennisfu (Post 7524362)
Drop shot, maybe 20 mph. Sorry, had to say it.

no he is quick, he will run it down, lob, retreat to the baseline.

HerrFederer 06-22-2013 02:17 PM

about 10 mph, back hand slice winner that lands just over the net.

ProgressoR 06-22-2013 02:25 PM

smash it to his face

GoudX 06-22-2013 04:27 PM

On a down the line winner an average speed of 53mph would beat a player who hugs the baseline and takes 1 second to get into position.

(Shot Distance / Time To travel) = Speed

(78ft / 1 second) = 53.182 mph

Accounting for the loss of speed at bounce and air resistance this probably means an initial speed of faster than 85mph.

Remember that there are better angles though, and that wrongfooting an opponent will delay their reaction, and the necessary speed becomes much lower.

ProgressoR 06-22-2013 04:57 PM

an atp player probably wouldnt be bunting back lobs so in reality it takes this guy more than the ATP 1 second

LeftyRighty 06-22-2013 05:15 PM

Faster than the other guy can react lol.

Really if you place your shots good enough and move the person around, it wouldn't take much more that good placement to hit a winner, even at slow speeds.

It's not like you have a speed gun out there and can read it on every shot as winner target practice during a match. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the point

rkelley 06-22-2013 06:20 PM

It's also generally harder when you have to create all your own pace. Is bunting it back all he can do? If so my preference is to take the net and hit overheads and easy volleys - lower risk shots.

boramiNYC 06-22-2013 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftyRighty (Post 7524791)
Faster than the other guy can react lol.

Really if you place your shots good enough and move the person around, it wouldn't take much more that good placement to hit a winner, even at slow speeds.

It's not like you have a speed gun out there and can read it on every shot as winner target practice during a match. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the point

right on. if you can beat the opponent in the head (meaning you can hit toward opposite of where your opponent is expecting) even a casual stroke will be a winner.

if the opponent has enough time to hit back a bunt with control you are giving him a little too much time. practice drop feed and hitting with pace with good control.

pushing_wins 06-23-2013 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoudX (Post 7524707)
On a down the line winner an average speed of 53mph would beat a player who hugs the baseline and takes 1 second to get into position.

(Shot Distance / Time To travel) = Speed

(78ft / 1 second) = 53.182 mph

Accounting for the loss of speed at bounce and air resistance this probably means an initial speed of faster than 85mph.

Remember that there are better angles though, and that wrongfooting an opponent will delay their reaction, and the necessary speed becomes much lower.

thanks

the speed quoted on tv is intial speed or avg speed?

TennisCJC 06-23-2013 06:15 AM

I think the question is not valid because you should not be thinking "winner" if you are hitting from your baseline and opponent has recovered to the center of your possible shots. I think Brad Gilbert would call this a low percentage play. If you have a ball in you wheel house and you are on the baseline, then I suggest think time for an aggressive shot which could be one of many options: 1: Hard and deep with lot s of top CC to get a weak reply (basic shot), 2. Hard and deep DTL with top DTL - especially if this is you opponents weaker side, 3. wide angle top CC - only advise this if you are right up on the baseline and not 3' or more back, 4. short slice to force opponent to hit a low ball.

If you can make contact 3' or more inside the baseline, then start thinking even more aggressively such as winner DTL, approach shot, drop shot, short wide angles, or hard CC drive.

I you are 4.5 or below, I would make 3' inside the baseline your green light to blast. If you are further back, think aggressive shot to put opponent into trouble. But, if you are back and opponent has hit a quality shot, think rally ball to reset the point - go with height and depth.

North 06-23-2013 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pushing_wins (Post 7524370)
no he is quick, he will run it down, lob, retreat to the baseline.

Just out of curiosity, given the name you use, is this hypothetical baseline lob bunter you, by any chance?

10isfreak 06-23-2013 02:08 PM

Power is way overrated.

ATP players need to hit big to prevent their ATP opponent from taking the lead during the rallies... but as amateurs, there are MUCH smarter ways to win a point than sheer power. As someone pointed out, hitting from well behind the baseline doesn't give you big chances to win the point outright... relatively to your skills, it takes enough to make this a low percentage play. When the rally is neutral, find a way to make your life easier. Be picky on the balls you choose to attack instead.

If you are closer to the net, angles are easier to get. Same if the ball is higher than the net, but ot so high it's above your head...

Even pushers, moonballers and other crafty fast runners have their weaknesses... use them!

pushing_wins 06-23-2013 08:17 PM

whats the most satisfying way to beat a pusher? hit a winner at 85 mph for me.

however most players cant hit at 60mph. thats why pushers win, i guess.

fuzz nation 06-24-2013 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pushing_wins (Post 7527118)
whats the most satisfying way to beat a pusher? hit a winner at 85 mph for me.

however most players cant hit at 60mph. thats why pushers win, i guess.

Go to the net and have your way with 'em... Works for me.

LeeD 06-24-2013 03:35 PM

A volley winner can be hit at less than 20 mph, and the baseliner can never touch it.

LeeD 06-24-2013 03:36 PM

And if you're glued to your own baseline, you can drop shot and lob combo your opponent 6 times, and you last drop shot, or your last lob, at 20 mph, will be a clean winner.


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