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-   -   Rolling vs SWINGING over the back of the ball. (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=468697)

Djoker91 07-01-2013 05:27 AM

Rolling vs SWINGING over the back of the ball.
 
Long story short, I had a booming forehand at age 14-16. Completely lost it after taking a year off of tennis. Upon returning I tried the whole rolling over the back of the ball. That DOES NOT work if you are purposely trying to move the wrist and roll over it. Disaster. Inconsistent. I regained my form last night, cracking winners again. 1) keep grip and arm loose throughout the swing. 2) drag the racket towards the ball, in a low to high manner. 3) SWING, not roll with wrist, over the back of the ball. When I SWING over it with a loose grip, it gives you the correct feel of the forehand. Wrist does nothing. Is passive. Your entire swing however can start lower, at contact yur perpendicular, and be a great shot. Does anybody else feel this way? Rolling with the wrist being bad, but you can swing, as a unit, over the ball to have a fast heavy spin forehand? Almost like, swinging low-to-high AND out. Not just low to high. Comments?

Lukhas 07-01-2013 06:25 AM

Rolling is what it feels like, not what's happening or what you're supposed to do. Not surprising disaster happens when trying to actually roll over the ball.

Djoker91 07-03-2013 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukhas (Post 7552166)
Rolling is what it feels like, not what's happening or what you're supposed to do. Not surprising disaster happens when trying to actually roll over the ball.

Well let me ask you this. Are you supposed to execute your swing with that feel? Purposely? Or not purposely?

Lukhas 07-03-2013 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djoker91 (Post 7560267)
Well let me ask you this. Are you supposed to execute your swing with that feel? Purposely? Or not purposely?

It depends of the result.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSU9rAyA4vE

TennisCJC 07-03-2013 12:52 PM

In my view, you are correct. I think a loose grip and a passive wrist are the way to go.

But, I do think it is OK to work on a WW follow-thru. For WW, the forearm pronates a bit and keeps the palm facing out toward the target longer. No wrist roll here either.

I strongly feel that you should never ever try to roll the racket face over the top of the ball. This is FH suicide and will lead to inconsistency and smothering the ball.

I also don't think you should try to go into a WW pronation before contact either instead I think you should be hitting thru contact when the pronation begins. Some advocate starting the pronation before contact to pull the racket face up the back of the ball.

To me the keys are loose grip, wrist lays back either during the backswing or when forward swing begins, swing path is up-thru-and-across with some extension thru contact, and then let the forearm roll into WW follow-thru.

TennisCJC 07-03-2013 12:57 PM

Here's a video/slide presentation that shows Federer has very little wrist movement just prior, during and after contact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6icR4QaI84

Sometime the racket recoil will cause the stringbed to open or close but this is not controlled by the player's hand or wrist, instead it is just a function of hitting off center. Hit low on the racket face and the angle may close after contact, or hit high on the racket face and the racket face may open. Hitting high or low is in relation to the ground and not the throat or tip of the racket.

TimothyO 07-03-2013 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TennisCJC (Post 7560348)
Here's a video/slide presentation that shows Federer has very little wrist movement just prior, during and after contact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6icR4QaI84

Sometime the racket recoil will cause the stringbed to open or close but this is not controlled by the player's hand or wrist, instead it is just a function of hitting off center. Hit low on the racket face and the angle may close after contact, or hit high on the racket face and the racket face may open. Hitting high or low is in relation to the ground and not the throat or tip of the racket.

That is a terrible video. The angle highlighted is not the angle of the racquet head. Not even close. Worse than useless it's misleading.

TimothyO 07-03-2013 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djoker91 (Post 7551928)
Long story short, I had a booming forehand at age 14-16. Completely lost it after taking a year off of tennis. Upon returning I tried the whole rolling over the back of the ball. That DOES NOT work if you are purposely trying to move the wrist and roll over it. Disaster. Inconsistent. I regained my form last night, cracking winners again. 1) keep grip and arm loose throughout the swing. 2) drag the racket towards the ball, in a low to high manner. 3) SWING, not roll with wrist, over the back of the ball. When I SWING over it with a loose grip, it gives you the correct feel of the forehand. Wrist does nothing. Is passive. Your entire swing however can start lower, at contact yur perpendicular, and be a great shot. Does anybody else feel this way? Rolling with the wrist being bad, but you can swing, as a unit, over the ball to have a fast heavy spin forehand? Almost like, swinging low-to-high AND out. Not just low to high. Comments?

Go to a high level ITF juniors event or low level professional event (eg US Open qualifier). They're free, poorly attended, and you can sit virtually court side.

Viewing one of these players from the side at nearly court-level observe:

1. the racquet head swing path

2. the racquet head angle

These vary based slightly on the contact point level relative to the net level. You will NOT see them rolling anything over the ball. The best will strike the ball cleanly with a sharp swing path. As they prepare there's a almost a slight pause as they line up aim and then unleash their swing.

For a ball above the net the racquet head is closed and the angle of the head matches the swing path like a sword cut. The contact point on the ball, when viewed from the side, is somewhere around 2 or so (this varies based on height relative to net).

After watching a few such events I tried the same thing. It was the best lesson I've ever had. I'm hitting with more spin, pace, depth, and consistency than every before.

user92626 07-03-2013 03:30 PM

IMO, the swing paths, racket angles, contact points are all relatively easy stuff to get though. The hardest part is the timing and the heavy unloading, uncoiling, kinetic chain, whatever you call it, that yields a ton of power.

Every recreational player knows how to hit the ball over, more or less with topspin, but rarely do you see the kind of power that pushes opponents back 3 feet behind the baseline through out a match.

It's like every guy knows how and can throw a punch, but how many guys can knock out another same sized guy with one or two punches?

ProgressoR 07-03-2013 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by user92626 (Post 7560674)

It's like every guy knows how and can throw a punch, but how many guys can knock out another same sized guy with one or two punches?

I'll give it a go and let you know how it goes.

user92626 07-03-2013 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProgressoR (Post 7560718)
I'll give it a go and let you know how it goes.

And if I don't hear back from you, don't worry your answer is also loud and clear.


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