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-   -   Lower Tension (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=470655)

Topspin101 07-18-2013 05:53 PM

Lower Tension
 
I have a client that I string with RPM Blast in his Babolat Pro Drive Plus @ 58 lbs. He wants something totally different. I suggested Duraflex 16g strung @ 50 lbs. Was this ok advise or a potential disaster?

gmatheis 07-18-2013 06:04 PM

well that's totally different ... not sure if it's going to be a "good" different though.

What does he mean by totally different ?

String recommendations are usually made based on the player's style and what they are looking to change.

Without much to go on I'd suggest a hybrid of rpm in the mains dropped to 53lbs and the duraflex in the crosses at 57lbs.

SwankPeRFection 07-18-2013 09:27 PM

If he wanted something different because his arm was bothering him with RPM at 58 (which is too high for poly anyway), then you should have given him RPM at 44lbs. I had a client who insisted I string is RPM at 58 and not lower. When he came back to get restrung we consulted again and he indicated he was having some arm soreness after playing sometimes. Told him to just humor me one time and let me string it at a different tension. I strung it and gave it back to him without telling him what it was. Just told him to go play and see what happens. He came back happy and I told him it was 44lbs. He was shocked that 44 wasn't causing him to hit everything out. He actually played better with the lower tension and no more arm pain.

I never suggest normal players to play with poly anywhere in the 50's. Always 40's (mid to low). Nobody believe it until they try it. It's like everyone's been sold on the idea that if it's not strung at 60, you'll hit out. :rolleyes:

Shroud 07-18-2013 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection (Post 7600069)

I never suggest normal players to play with poly anywhere in the 50's. Always 40's (mid to low). Nobody believe it until they try it. It's like everyone's been sold on the idea that if it's not strung at 60, you'll hit out. :rolleyes:

Yep. Been stringing at 32lbs myself and I certainly was thinking I would hit EVERYTHING out. But man are the lower tensions awesome.

I really think that some magic happens at the lower tensions and the common wisdom is flipped on its head. There is a 100+ page thread in the strings section about low low tensions.

You were smart not to tell them :)

drgchen 07-19-2013 05:29 AM

Considering the vast number of people (maybe a dozen or so) on this board that tout using tensions of 20-30, it is funny that you have to go down to Volandri at rank 101 before you see anyone using extremely low tensions. At the 2012 Sony Ericcson median tension 55, lowest 42, highest 70lbs. Federer used to use mid 40s in a 90 sq inch racquet but we will see where he goes with the new racquet.

I string racquets and I've tried all tensions. I agree that arm problems with RPM at 58 should have prompted a drop in tension, try high 40s to 50. 20-30 tensions are great- they help sell strings when you cut them out after one hitting session.

Rabbit 07-19-2013 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection (Post 7600069)
If he wanted something different because his arm was bothering him with RPM at 58 (which is too high for poly anyway), then you should have given him RPM at 44lbs. I had a client who insisted I string is RPM at 58 and not lower. When he came back to get restrung we consulted again and he indicated he was having some arm soreness after playing sometimes. Told him to just humor me one time and let me string it at a different tension. I strung it and gave it back to him without telling him what it was. Just told him to go play and see what happens. He came back happy and I told him it was 44lbs. He was shocked that 44 wasn't causing him to hit everything out. He actually played better with the lower tension and no more arm pain.

I never suggest normal players to play with poly anywhere in the 50's. Always 40's (mid to low). Nobody believe it until they try it. It's like everyone's been sold on the idea that if it's not strung at 60, you'll hit out. :rolleyes:


I have exactly the same situation going on. A client I string for was complaining about arm pain AND only getting 2 sets of tennis out of a set of poly on his 99S. I stair stepped him down from 58 to 50. He didn't notice any difference in play; i.e. win/lose, but did notice his strings last 3X longer and his arm felt better.

Recently, he asked me to go back up on tension. I did. His arm started hurting again. He sent me two frames last night and a message "Never listen to me again, you are in charge".

Red001 07-19-2013 11:24 AM

ERT-300 and low tension
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabbit (Post 7600485)
.... I stair stepped him down from 58 to 50. ... .

Did someone used ERT-300 on racquets strung at mid 40 (lbs)?
What is Dynamic Tension (DT) value for such racquets?
ERT manufacturer stated that DT on any racquet should NOT go below 27.

rhaudiogeek 07-19-2013 11:52 AM

I string mine at 45lbs (mains) / 47lbs (cross) and the ERT shows a reading of 30

Red001 07-20-2013 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhaudiogeek (Post 7601189)
I string mine at 45lbs (mains) / 47lbs (cross) and the ERT shows a reading of 30

I have to try tension in high 40s though DT=30 is very close to the recommended threshold 28. I sent an email to ERT-300 manufacturer 'BEERS Technic GmbH' asking why they recommend NOT to play with DT below 28. The answer was '...Our recommendations are based on experiences of tournament players preferring higher DT for better Control in their powerful games. DT 28 (newly strung) is a low string bed stiffness. Going even lower than 28 we then will reach the situation of a “hanging net” (reduced playing feed back, less control). ... '

Rhaudiogeek, Do you notice string movement on your racquet with such a low tension or your strings still 'snap' back?

SwankPeRFection 07-21-2013 09:32 AM

Also remember that set tension that you're stringing at vs what type of stringer you use vs how quickly you string will also have a tendency to give you slightly different results of the string bed stiffness.

For example, when I string my 90's at 40 or 44 lbs, I will string one of them slower than the other. The one I string slower has a nicer slightly softer bed right off the bat as opposed to the other one, which is slightly stiffer. I play with the softer one and the stiffer one goes in the bag as the backup. When the first one goes dead in a couple of weeks, I move to the other one and by then, the bed feels just like the other one did fresh off the stringer.

Play around a little and see what feels best to you or your client.

Another very important aspect to remember is that string tension also dictates ball pocketing and depending on the racquet head size, stiffness of the frame, etc. more ball pocketing on one frame will increase accuracy while it may not do so on another. So, some sticks benefit from lower tensions to provide more power and control vs the standard rationale that less tension provides power vs more tension providing more control.

Shroud 07-21-2013 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection (Post 7605004)
Also remember that set tension that you're stringing at vs what type of stringer you use vs how quickly you string will also have a tendency to give you slightly different results of the string bed stiffness.

For example, when I string my 90's at 40 or 44 lbs, I will string one of them slower than the other. The one I string slower has a nicer slightly softer bed right off the bat as opposed to the other one, which is slightly stiffer. I play with the softer one and the stiffer one goes in the bag as the backup. When the first one goes dead in a couple of weeks, I move to the other one and by then, the bed feels just like the other one did fresh off the stringer.

Play around a little and see what feels best to you or your client.

Another very important aspect to remember is that string tension also dictates ball pocketing and depending on the racquet head size, stiffness of the frame, etc. more ball pocketing on one frame will increase accuracy while it may not do so on another. So, some sticks benefit from lower tensions to provide more power and control vs the standard rationale that less tension provides power vs more tension providing more control.

Great points! I like the staggered tensions. Makes so much sense. Once I settle on a string combo I will do this.

You last point is dead on and why on my POG mid I am staying with the low low tensions. I get ball pocketing now and lets just say at the top of the range with kevlar ball pocketing didnt really happened. Now that there is some it has helped my volleys and serves, slices, etc. I think it has even helped my backhand returns. COmbined with added weight, its a great feeling stick.

SwankPeRFection 07-21-2013 09:13 PM

Yep, the only thing with tuning your ball pocketing capability of the string/racquet combo is that your racquet head speed also plays a part in that, so depending on the speed of the strings pocketing an incoming ball and recoiling it back off the string bed, you must NOT over accelerate beyond that specific sweet point. If you do, you'll have no power and the shots may be off a bit from where you wanted them to go.

It's hard to put into words, but have you ever swung faster than normal and not had more power into a shot than you did when you didn't try so hard? That's overdriving the capability of the string/racquet setup. If it's not a smooth properly timed motion, it won't work right. This is actually one of the main reasons why pros with very hit RHS will string higher... to make sure that the responsiveness is there from the string bed on faster strokes.

Something to think about... tension based on your swing speed, not what the racquet manufacturer wants you to string at for the specific stick.

Wikky 07-22-2013 02:11 AM

Although I do enjoy reading everyones opinion on poly strings at lower tensions I would like to answer the OP's original question.

You said that your client is looking for "something totally different." i suppose the exact opposite end of rpm at 58 is natural gut at 30. But since that would be a huge disaster for sure make sure to ask specifically what they are looking for. It really comes down to power, control, and durability. Some would add spin into that equation but I like to remind the customer that for the most part spin is something the player creates not the racquet or the string.

After you find out what they're looking to improve ask again and I'm sure everyone here will have plenty of helpful suggestions... not involving why you should string poly at low tensions.

SwankPeRFection 07-22-2013 08:54 AM

^^^ Dunno about that. If you had a normal league player (older) come in from playing with poly at 58, their remark about wanting something totally different is probably because they found out poly is too tight and rough/boardy at 58. What they don't realize, like everyone else, is that you don't have to string everything in the 50's or 60's to be playable. Either way, the OP should have asked the player what he did or didn't like about the stringing. If they said because it didn't feel good and was too rough, I'd restring it at 40 and send him back out with it under the understanding that if he still didn't like it, we'd then look at changing strings to something other than poly. (Of course, this one 40's test with the same string would be on my dime as a test for them to see if they prefer longer poly tensions. I normally do this because more than half the time they don't believe me until they try it. Then all of a sudden poly isn't a bad string for them and they just change their tension preference but remain with either that same poly or a different one they move to later. If they love the new low tensions, almost 75% of them come back and pay for that freebie test anyway out of courtesy, so it's a win/win most of the time.) The other side of the coin is that they probably asked for RPM because they heard it introduces a lot of spin. I would argue that there are a ton of other non-shaped poly strings in 17 that can get you just as much spin as RPM and it lasts a lot longer too if not strung stupid tight.

rhaudiogeek 07-22-2013 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red001 (Post 7603239)
I have to try tension in high 40s though DT=30 is very close to the recommended threshold 28. I sent an email to ERT-300 manufacturer 'BEERS Technic GmbH' asking why they recommend NOT to play with DT below 28. The answer was '...Our recommendations are based on experiences of tournament players preferring higher DT for better Control in their powerful games. DT 28 (newly strung) is a low string bed stiffness. Going even lower than 28 we then will reach the situation of a “hanging net” (reduced playing feed back, less control). ... '

Rhaudiogeek, Do you notice string movement on your racquet with such a low tension or your strings still 'snap' back?

Depends on what string you use.A stiff poly like RPM Blast, Signum Pro or Kirschbaum Pro Line X does not move much at all.

I usually hybrid mine with a multi in the mains and co-poly on the cross. Works well for me.

fortun8son 07-22-2013 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topspin101 (Post 7599753)
I have a client that I string with RPM Blast in his Babolat Pro Drive Plus @ 58 lbs. He wants something totally different. I suggested Duraflex 16g strung @ 50 lbs. Was this ok advise or a potential disaster?

Well, that sure is radically different.
"I don't like my Mini Cooper anymore"
"Ok, try this Buick" :)

Rabbit 07-24-2013 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red001 (Post 7601102)
Did someone used ERT-300 on racquets strung at mid 40 (lbs)?
What is Dynamic Tension (DT) value for such racquets?
ERT manufacturer stated that DT on any racquet should NOT go below 27.

I don't have an ERT-300. Your post, it seems to me, is a perfect microcosm of the boards. I do not think we should let the "science" of tennis equipment trump what we do on court.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection (Post 7605004)
Also remember that set tension that you're stringing at vs what type of stringer you use vs how quickly you string will also have a tendency to give you slightly different results of the string bed stiffness.

For example, when I string my 90's at 40 or 44 lbs, I will string one of them slower than the other. The one I string slower has a nicer slightly softer bed right off the bat as opposed to the other one, which is slightly stiffer. I play with the softer one and the stiffer one goes in the bag as the backup. When the first one goes dead in a couple of weeks, I move to the other one and by then, the bed feels just like the other one did fresh off the stringer.

Play around a little and see what feels best to you or your client.

Another very important aspect to remember is that string tension also dictates ball pocketing and depending on the racquet head size, stiffness of the frame, etc. more ball pocketing on one frame will increase accuracy while it may not do so on another. So, some sticks benefit from lower tensions to provide more power and control vs the standard rationale that less tension provides power vs more tension providing more control.

This is nice. I will set my Wise to the slowest speed when next I string. You say you really can feel a difference? What machine are you stringing with?

SwankPeRFection 07-25-2013 02:02 PM

^^^ I have a simple Pioneer DC Plus, but depending on how quickly I drop the weight (mind you, I don't just drop it, but it's how quickly I lower it to horizontal and then clamp, etc.) will make a difference on bed stiffness. Also, this speed difference is not as much as you think it is. Also, this differs between poly and synthetic gut. With gut it's how much I let it settle at horizontal and then pull again to attain a bit more stretch. With poly it's how quickly I get to reference tension that seems to be the deciding factor because once it's at horizontal, it doesn't go beyond that as much as gut does.


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