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-   -   I think Fed is serving better with the new stick...... (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=470806)

guitarplayer 07-20-2013 06:11 AM

I think Fed is serving better with the new stick......
 
But that's about all. Still a lot of shanking. I agree with Breakpoint, I think it's more his swing style...the way he takes the ball. On ground strokes it almost seems as if he's not swinging through all the way like he's afraid of the additional power or concerned he can't control it.

Of course this is on clay I'd like to see him on hard courts with it. What do you think. I just don't seem much of a difference in his game.

SwankPeRFection 07-20-2013 06:25 AM

No he's not. ACE count is down and so is 1st serve %. The short out wide ACEs are non-existant anymore. Haven't seen him hit a single one yet.

The Meat 07-20-2013 06:42 AM

You know he had around a 60% first serve average the entire tournament right? That's Federer's danger zone.

Nostradamus 07-20-2013 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meat (Post 7603009)
You know he had around a 60% first serve average the entire tournament right? That's Federer's danger zone.

what do you expect with the new stick in his 1st week. This will take around 3-6 month to adjust.

cork_screw 07-20-2013 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitarplayer (Post 7602880)
But that's about all. Still a lot of shanking. I agree with Breakpoint, I think it's more his swing style...the way he takes the ball. On ground strokes it almost seems as if he's not swinging through all the way like he's afraid of the additional power or concerned he can't control it.

Of course this is on clay I'd like to see him on hard courts with it. What do you think. I just don't seem much of a difference in his game.

Good point!

It does seem like he's trying to judge how hard to hit. If he hits too much, the ball flies. So he's just rolling the ball back. His rallies look really below par.

byealmeens 07-20-2013 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection (Post 7602946)
No he's not. ACE count is down and so is 1st serve %. The short out wide ACEs are non-existant anymore. Haven't seen him hit a single one yet.

I agree ... he does not seem to be serivng better - pace or placement. Anyone know what his average first serve speed is?? Seems he's barely breaking 110 mph ... I realize he's experimenting but this still seems low.

ST VINCENT FAN 07-20-2013 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nostradamus (Post 7603061)
what do you expect with the new stick in his 1st week. This will take around 3-6 month to adjust.

3-6 months of adjustment time is fine if you're 24 but not so sure at 31??

SwankPeRFection 07-20-2013 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by byealmeens (Post 7603407)
I agree ... he does not seem to be serivng better - pace or placement. Anyone know what his average first serve speed is?? Seems he's barely breaking 110 mph ... I realize he's experimenting but this still seems low.

Used to hit in the 120's I think. Low 120's but still. I'll bet the new frame is not only bigger but also lighter to help him swing it more freely. Less mass equals less speed on your shots if you can't get the pendulum timing just right for the stick you're using. This could explain why sometimes he nails a shot perfectly and other times it's weak looking.

I'd hate to say it, but what if he had gone with an Asian 90? For people who can't deal with 12oz sticks, the Asian 90 is perfect. Now obviously Fed is much stronger than your average league player is, but a lighter racquet with similar SW or inertial force as his normal 90 could help speed things up.

**** man, give him the 85 and let's see what's up.


BTW, the larger racquet with more power that Sampras moved to on his senior tour are helping him because he no longer has the swing speed he did when he was young. Contrary to this, Fed still does and that's one of the reasons why this experiment isn't working well. What I saw is that unless things were perfectly set up for a shot, he was always hitting at 85% just to keep control on it. It's funny, but his shot results almost looked like what I had experienced when I played with an EXO Black a few years ago. With the open grommets two shots hit the same way never ended up in the same place and crap was always long. Switched to closed grommets and that improved some but sometimes it would still creep up. Switched to poly and that brought back some more control. Eventually I gave up on that POS frame and been playing with a 90 ever since. Sure it's heavier and whatnot, but once I figured out that I don't need to fight my mechanics or muscle my shots, especially the serve, amazing things started to happen.

BreakPoint 07-20-2013 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection (Post 7603680)

**** man, give him the 85 and let's see what's up.

Too funny!

For years, tons of people on this board wanted Federer to switch to a larger racquet thinking that would be the panacea to all of his problems. But now after seeing him play this week with a larger racquet, people are now advocating he switch to an even smaller racquet than he used before? LOL

(BTW, I do agree that he should try the 85. It just may work out better for him than this 98 did. :shock: )

byealmeens 07-20-2013 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection (Post 7603680)
Used to hit in the 120's I think. Low 120's but still. I'll bet the new frame is not only bigger but also lighter to help him swing it more freely. Less mass equals less speed on your shots if you can't get the pendulum timing just right for the stick you're using. This could explain why sometimes he nails a shot perfectly and other times it's weak looking.

I'd hate to say it, but what if he had gone with an Asian 90? For people who can't deal with 12oz sticks, the Asian 90 is perfect. Now obviously Fed is much stronger than your average league player is, but a lighter racquet with similar SW or inertial force as his normal 90 could help speed things up.

**** man, give him the 85 and let's see what's up.


BTW, the larger racquet with more power that Sampras moved to on his senior tour are helping him because he no longer has the swing speed he did when he was young. Contrary to this, Fed still does and that's one of the reasons why this experiment isn't working well. What I saw is that unless things were perfectly set up for a shot, he was always hitting at 85% just to keep control on it. It's funny, but his shot results almost looked like what I had experienced when I played with an EXO Black a few years ago. With the open grommets two shots hit the same way never ended up in the same place and crap was always long. Switched to closed grommets and that improved some but sometimes it would still creep up. Switched to poly and that brought back some more control. Eventually I gave up on that POS frame and been playing with a 90 ever since. Sure it's heavier and whatnot, but once I figured out that I don't need to fight my mechanics or muscle my shots, especially the serve, amazing things started to happen.

Once again, I think you are spot on. On the serve the accuracy wasn't there so it almost felt like he was taking a lot off to hit the right spots. Off the ground, many of hit shots seemed to have more spin (for control) and rarely did he seem comfortable swinging full out.

I would add one more thing ... watch how much trouble he's having with a "mid-range" ball - one that's not too short but not really deep. He is typically known for being very aggressive with these but in Hamburg he has not only been tentative, but he's been missing an unusually high percentage of them ... even off the forehand side.

BLX_Andy 07-20-2013 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nostradamus (Post 7603061)
what do you expect with the new stick in his 1st week. This will take around 3-6 month to adjust.

I remember when Novak had an adjustment period coming from Wilson to Head.

Bobby Jr 07-20-2013 05:49 PM

Some of the comments here are utter bollocks. He is doing what he needs to in order to win. That's how he's generally played when fresh to a new surface.

Why do more if the wins are coming like they are? He's in trial mode and today's loss is barely a blip on the radar. He would have performed this way with his old frame too.

sureshs 07-20-2013 05:51 PM

He is doing just fine for his age and achievements. He has a lot of miles on him which other older players don't have, and he has 2 kids too. He reached the semis and lost. That will how it will be from now on. Quarters and semis and sometimes better if everything lines up.

SFrazeur 07-20-2013 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7604087)
He is doing just fine for his age and achievements. He has a lot of miles on him which other older players don't have, and he has 2 kids too. He reached the semis and lost. That will how it will be from now on. Quarters and semis and sometimes better if everything lines up.

If he had lost this tournament with his old racquet there would be another thread-again-exclaiming how needs a bigger racquet.

BreakPoint 07-20-2013 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFrazeur (Post 7604123)
If he had lost this tournament with his old racquet there would be another thread-again-exclaiming how needs a bigger racquet.

Exactomundo!!

I'm still waiting for the - "Federer needs an even bigger racquet!" - threads to appear. :lol:

SwankPeRFection 07-20-2013 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by byealmeens (Post 7603826)
Once again, I think you are spot on. On the serve the accuracy wasn't there so it almost felt like he was taking a lot off to hit the right spots. Off the ground, many of hit shots seemed to have more spin (for control) and rarely did he seem comfortable swinging full out.

I would add one more thing ... watch how much trouble he's having with a "mid-range" ball - one that's not too short but not really deep. He is typically known for being very aggressive with these but in Hamburg he has not only been tentative, but he's been missing an unusually high percentage of them ... even off the forehand side.

Yep, I agree. I think if he really likes and wants to switch to this new racquet, he'll have to change up his stringing a bit. Fed has always been known to hit flatter shots than anyone else. Sure, he can loop shots when he wants to, but if you look at his net clearance on his average shots, it's not very much. Because of this, he won't go well with a racquet that has more power. I don't think he ever needed more power, I think what he needs is one that can come around faster for him. If he can't get in position faster, then he needs a racquet that'll be more forgiving in motion... that means slightly lighter without sacrificing the stable base that he expects from it. A Blade 98 is not it. Perhaps Wilson can go back to the drawing board and lighten up his current 90 and stiffen it up just a tad bit. The lightness will give him a bit more speed on the defensive shots to get the racquet in position faster and the stiffening will give it a bit more power than what it has now. Change those two up, have him loosen the stringing a bit if needed and see where that new iteration of the 90 for 2014 gives him. That's what I think Wilson should do for him. Giving him a Blade that's possibly custom drilled for a tighter center pattern isn't doing **** for him right now.

Anyone who think tweener racquets are the bomb has never played with a box-beam stick. It's something that once you get used to it, nothing else comes close. He just needs an improved design to it as opposed to the constant softening that Wilson is doing to it.

Like it or not and despite what people on here say (i.d. he's still playing with a K90 frame under all the current PJs, etc.) his strokes/power started to suffer a bit right when Wilson introduced the BLX line of 90's. Since then the sticks were softer and more muted... heck, even normal players said this with the off the shelf units. I firmly believe that Wilson provides him with regular sticks and P1 just customizes them to his liking for feel and nothing more. Wilson needs to back up their golden boy and dial back the noodle softness of what they've turned the 90's into. The ProStaff line was a bit of an improvement, but they need to go back to a more raw feel on it. When that happens, I believe it'll solve his issues.

tata 07-20-2013 11:57 PM

Well he can easily solve the power/depth issues by playing with the strings or getting wilson to make a stiffer version of what he uses. As for the shanking.......it's odd because he doesn't shank a lot every match. It happens on his off days so there really is no reason why he shanks apart from just 'not his day'. Perhaps the guy needs glasses to improve his depth perception? The guy was playing crazy good in R1 against hanescu at wimby, then weeks later he's all rusty again.

Bobby Jr 07-21-2013 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by byealmeens (Post 7603826)
Once again, I think you are spot on. On the serve the accuracy wasn't there so it almost felt like he was taking a lot off to hit the right spots.

Taking something off your serve does not necessarily help you hit the right spots at the level Federer serves. His serve is an integral part of his game and known as one of the most precision serves in history. I don't know why anyone would be remotely surprised that his serve would be most affected initially by such a big change in his racquet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by byealmeens (Post 7603826)
Off the ground, many of hit shots seemed to have more spin (for control) and rarely did he seem comfortable swinging full out.

Haas looked odd here to, as did Verdasco - neither of them were using new frames that I am aware of. I put it more down to the surface and these odd Tretorn balls than anything specifically racquet-related for Federer.

Praetorian 07-21-2013 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection (Post 7603680)


BTW, the larger racquet with more power that Sampras moved to on his senior tour are helping him because he no longer has the swing speed he did when he was young. .

I personally like to think that his opponents are a little bit older and slower than when they played in their primes.;-)


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