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 Playtennis 07-21-2013 03:12 AM

Timed Match?

Does anyone know how times matches are factored into ratings? Was playing and got timed out at 3-6, 2-3 ( on serve). Does ratings look at this as a break/ set? Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

 schmke 07-21-2013 05:44 AM

The NTRP algorithm uses game differentials, so a timed match like this will have its game differential extrapolated/normalized to a full 12 games, e.g. the -4 differential for the timed match becomes -5.33 for a normalized full 2 set match.

 Cindysphinx 07-21-2013 06:03 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by schmke (Post 7604812) The NTRP algorithm uses game differentials, so a timed match like this will have its game differential extrapolated/normalized to a full 12 games, e.g. the -4 differential for the timed match becomes -5.33 for a normalized full 2 set match.
Easy there, Math Major.

Allow me to translate this to English.

The computer only cares about games won/lost. So the computer sees that you won 5 games to the opponent's 9.

See? A math-free life is a happy life! :)

 schmke 07-21-2013 06:12 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Cindysphinx (Post 7604828) Easy there, Math Major. Allow me to translate this to English. The computer only cares about games won/lost. So the computer sees that you won 5 games to the opponent's 9. See? A math-free life is a happy life! :)
Except that isn't the complete answer! :)

Yes, it sees you won 5 and the opponent won 9, that is the game differential of 4. But that isn't what it goes with. Because it wasn't a complete match and the computer likes to use complete matches, it assumes the rate at which both of you will continue to win games is the same and says this match has a game differential of 5.33 rather than 4.

Sometimes ya gotta do all the math ;-)

 Cindysphinx 07-21-2013 07:06 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by schmke (Post 7604841) Except that isn't the complete answer! :) Yes, it sees you won 5 and the opponent won 9, that is the game differential of 4. But that isn't what it goes with. Because it wasn't a complete match and the computer likes to use complete matches, it assumes the rate at which both of you will continue to win games is the same and says this match has a game differential of 5.33 rather than 4. Sometimes ya gotta do all the math ;-)

Here's an equation for you that just might blow your mind:

5.33 = 4.

 Playtennis 07-21-2013 08:42 AM

Laughing because thanks cindysphinx I was not a math major. So if I understand schmke the computer assumes we would have lost? We were on serve and timed out. So what does that mean, sorry I'm not following. Does it look at a break/ set which isn't even accurate but looks what it was as 5 vs 9?

 Playtennis 07-21-2013 08:44 AM

We may not have lost. We were on serve.?...

 dcdoorknob 07-21-2013 09:20 AM

The computer doesn't care who won or lost even for completed matches, it only looks at how many games each player/team won.

 schmke 07-21-2013 09:44 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by dcdoorknob (Post 7605043) The computer doesn't care who won or lost even for completed matches, it only looks at how many games each player/team won.
Correct. And since this match was not a complete 2 sets, it simply looks at the game differential for the portion of the match that was completed, and figures out what the game differential would have been if each team had continued to win games at the same rate.

 schmke 07-21-2013 09:46 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Playtennis (Post 7605015) Laughing because thanks cindysphinx I was not a math major. So if I understand schmke the computer assumes we would have lost? We were on serve and timed out. So what does that mean, sorry I'm not following. Does it look at a break/ set which isn't even accurate but looks what it was as 5 vs 9?
Yes, it only looks at the 5 vs 9 in calculating the game differential to be used. It can't know if 2-3 is on serve or down a break.

 Tennislover70 07-31-2013 05:15 PM

So does it also work this way for a retired match because of an injury? Say we won 1st set 6-3 but had to retire before the 2nd set and lost?

 Gut4Tennis 07-31-2013 05:21 PM

 Nellie 07-31-2013 05:33 PM

In my state, most of the matches are indoors and timed, and the second set is not entered if not completed. So the computer only sees the first set score, even if the loser is way up the second set. Tennislink won't allow you to submit a partial set score. As you can imagine, people totally drag out the second set if they win the first set.

In the adjacent state, the win is based on total games if the second set is not completed (if both sets are spit, then a tie breaker is used), so you get an opposite situation when a player/team, after winning the first set, will totally tank the second set once down to get to the tie breaker.

 Gut4Tennis 07-31-2013 05:47 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Nellie (Post 7627075) In my state, most of the matches are indoors and timed, and the second set is not entered if not completed. So the computer only sees the first set score, even if the loser is way up the second set. Tennislink won't allow you to submit a partial set score. As you can imagine, people totally drag out the second set if they win the first set. In the adjacent state, the win is based on total games if the second set is not completed (if both sets are spit, then a tie breaker is used), so you get an opposite situation when a player/team, after winning the first set, will totally tank the second set once down to get to the tie breaker.
wait wait wait

so you're telling me if I lose the first set 5-7 and winning the second set 5-1 when times is called I lose??

No wonder I prefer tournaments

ridiculous

 J_R_B 07-31-2013 08:23 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Tennislover70 (Post 7627057) So does it also work this way for a retired match because of an injury? Say we won 1st set 6-3 but had to retire before the 2nd set and lost?
To the computer, you "won" 6-3. Likewise, if you win 1-6 7-6 7-5, the algorithm will treat this as a 15-17 "loss".

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