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-   -   Death by pusher? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=471375)

HughJars 07-25-2013 07:00 AM

Death by pusher?
 
Found this interesting video of a very effective retriever tearing up a quite aggressive baseline player.

What would you say their rating is? Im guessing a 5.5?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKlnvxtLZvs

Lukhas 07-25-2013 07:11 AM

French "Seconde sÚrie". The best ranked is the one ranked 2/6 which equals roughly 5.5 or a bit higher. 15/1 is the lower ranking here, which roughly equals 4.5 or a bit higher. Both are hitting below their rankings "standards" IMO (ripping shots here and there), but we're largely above mere "pushing" here.

Sim 07-25-2013 07:12 AM

Too many errors off easy shots. It looks more like 4.5. Definitely not a 5.5 for sure.

The retriever's serve is so soft, and the other guys dumps so many returns into the net.

Lukhas 07-25-2013 07:17 AM

Now, Christophe is normally a far better player than what he displays on that video. You should check his other videos. EDIT: I'd say in fact that the 2/6 is likely a junkballer or a counter puncher. You can't feed off his pace because he gives none, and when you give pace you're out or countered. He puts the ball where he wants with the spin he wants and accelerates when he needs to. Soft hands, better footwork and anticipation. Not a really good serve though. The difference of level is noticeable between the two.

EDIT2: Notice that Christophe is now ranked 5/6, which roughly equals 5.0.

GuyClinch 07-26-2013 01:13 AM

That is one of the better pushers I have seen. I'd classify him as junk baller though because he uses alot of spin but most of the time very little pace.

Christoper is a good player too - but he needs to do more with that serve. Not that I could dominate it either - but at his level he need to attack it more.

RockChalkOhio 07-26-2013 06:13 AM

I'd say they are about 3.7...maybe 4.2 tops. Dudes are hitting a lot of really loose shots in the net, wide, long. Nice headband bra.

HughJars 07-26-2013 08:40 AM

...............................

TimothyO 07-26-2013 10:09 AM

Red Shirt/Jacques is using textbook shot selection and court positioning and has smooth, steady strokes appropriate for a given situation.

White Shirt/Christophe is all over the place taking shots regardless of court positions or ball quality and has fairly erratic strokes.

The result makes sense and I wouldn't call it pushing. It's good tennis versus bad tennis.

ATP100 07-26-2013 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sim (Post 7612378)
Too many errors off easy shots. It looks more like 4.5. Definitely not a 5.5 for sure.

The retriever's serve is so soft, and the other guys dumps so many returns into the net.



The one guy might be 4.0-4.5, but the other is a very weak 4.0 or less.

Lukhas 07-26-2013 03:38 PM

Wonder why people try to guess the ratings when we know the rating to begin with... :lol:

Attila_the_gorilla 07-26-2013 06:36 PM

Enjoyed their videos, the so-called pusher is a very good player, has tremendous touch, timing, anticipation and movement. He has a fluid but slow, controlled swing, which minimizes unforced errors. Probably has a more powerful racket to make up for the lack of racket head speed. He wins by knowing his game and playing within his limits.

The other guy plays with a lot of effort for little reward. Great serve but fluffs up the volleys. Goes for too much on groundstrokes, too impatient. Needs to play within himself more.

Out of the two, the latter's style of play has more potential cos it gives him more chance to control points. But he needs to get more consistent and patient.

HughJars 07-26-2013 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukhas (Post 7616410)
Wonder why people try to guess the ratings when we know the rating to begin with... :lol:

Tell me about it :rolleyes:

movdqa 07-26-2013 08:21 PM

That was a lot of fun. The guy in red isn't a pusher - he showed this in the last game of the match. He's also very, very fast. Look at his calf muscles. I got the feeling that he was playing efficiently for most of the match - basically working on winning without expending more energy than he needed to.

10isfreak 07-27-2013 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukhas (Post 7616410)
Wonder why people try to guess the ratings when we know the rating to begin with... :lol:

They want to show publicly that they have a great sense of exaggeration. Apparently, there are things you aren't supposed to miss when you're good, even if the truth is that skill only makes mistakes less likely.

Look at how much they err when accessing their rating: I mean, it's not just .5 away, it's a full NRTP point or more. If you take a genuine 7.0 (touring pro) and err that much, you get a 5.5, which basically means their sense of game quality is that you need to hit like a touring pro to play 5.5 tennis... Next thing you know, they'll look at 4.0's rallying and, while laughing, they'll tell you that they are 2.0 beginners.

10isfreak 07-27-2013 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by movdqa (Post 7616797)
The guy in red isn't a pusher - he showed this in the last game of the match.

A pusher would wait, strictly wait, for a mistake, but he's going for winners at times and he's got some great replies here and there. I would venture into saying he's a counter puncher because he never pulls the trigger until you give him a clear opening.

gmatheis 07-27-2013 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukhas (Post 7616410)
Wonder why people try to guess the ratings when we know the rating to begin with... :lol:

Official ratings aren't always accurate. I'm a 3.5C but everyone tells me I'm not a 3.5. I know guys that are 4.5 but they are really just decent 4.0's

I played a match yesterday and lost 3-6,3-6. My opponent was ranked as a 4.5 and I am ranked as a 3.5. Realistically he's probably a good 4.0 and I'm a lower end 4.0

HughJars 07-27-2013 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmatheis (Post 7617564)
Official ratings aren't always accurate. I'm a 3.5C but everyone tells me I'm not a 3.5. I know guys that are 4.5 but they are really just decent 4.0's

I played a match yesterday and lost 3-6,3-6. My opponent was ranked as a 4.5 and I am ranked as a 3.5. Realistically he's probably a good 4.0 and I'm a lower end 4.0

If official ratings arent a measure of how good you are then what is? What your mum reckons? Ratings are given based on match performances am I right? Then what could possibly measure you as a player than hpw you perform against others?

Its like saying "they say water is wet, but I reckon its dry, so therefore its dry".

Your rating is 3.5C. Therefore youre a 3.5C!!!! Suck it up. Simplezzz!

gmatheis 07-27-2013 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HughJars (Post 7617575)
If official ratings arent a measure of how good you are then what is? What your mum reckons? Ratings are given based on match performances am I right? Then what could possibly measure you as a player than hpw you perform against others?

Its like saying "they say water is wet, but I reckon its dry, so therefore its dry".

Your rating is 3.5C. Therefore youre a 3.5C!!!! Suck it up. Simplezzz!

Are you that na´ve ? Ratings aren't perfect. They can be manipulated. Some people even get bumped up because their opponents are managing their ratings and throw the match. Also USTA ratings only change once a year(for most people) and only if you play spring league in most places.

I'm fairly sure that my own dynamic rating is in the 4.0 range after a 25-3 season but that wont change until ratings come out at the end of the year.

NJ1 07-27-2013 08:47 AM

"Death by Pusher" should actually be renamed "Assisted Suicide."

Lukhas 07-27-2013 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmatheis (Post 7617593)
Are you that na´ve ? Ratings aren't perfect. They can be manipulated. Some people even get bumped up because their opponents are managing their ratings and throw the match. Also USTA ratings only change once a year(for most people) and only if you play spring league in most places.

I'm fairly sure that my own dynamic rating is in the 4.0 range after a 25-3 season but that wont change until ratings come out at the end of the year.

Except it ain't how French rankings work. In France, you ranking is determined by your number of victories, the ranking of the people you beat and their evolution in the year. Then your defeats and the ranking of the players who defeated you. Even your tournament results don't matter that much. The highest ranking you can attain is the one of the best ranked player you beat + a couple of ranking points.
If you tank the end season in France, you'll loose rankings really bad, because it will be taken in account to calculate your ranking. Especially if your opponent is far below you in rankings. You have to have enough points to hold your ranking to even hope having a better ranking next time. I lack the translation skills and willpower to describe you exactly how it works, especially in a different system with a different counting method.

Tl; Dr: In France, you have to earn every single bit of your ranking. Period.


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